Game of Thrones

[AndrewCrossett]

It makes sense if Drogon couldn't burn Jon because he was a Targaryen... but a dumb story decision.

[Master Planner]

The more they explain things, the more i feel that season 8 was a big disaster for the franchise. It's not only that it killed my interest in seeing the show again, it killed my interest for the books(if Martin will ever release the last 2 books,which personally, i doubt).

As for the fanbase, the rage is justified about the bad writing and the laziness, but there were great things from that show. Many actors gave their best, despite the bad material and i still believe that the soundtrack of the series is the crowning jewel of this show.Still, a big part of the fanbase are borderline insane and take a show about a fictional world way too seriously. I mean,death threats? Please!!!That's way extreme and unfortunately, a consequence of social media.

[Hellion]

The hullabaloo over the joking line in the script that Jon and Sansa both failed geography has given rise to some great memes. Of course, enraged fans also point out that this statement is a disservice to those two characters (or at least Sansa) because they are highborn children tutored by Maester Luwin. But failing at geography is very ironic considering the physical location of King's Landing has shifted several times in the show and that Dorne/Sunspear/Water Gardens never seem to be distinguished as separate entities, especially on the map in the opening credits.

The script also refers to Gendry as Warden of the South, a title traditionally belonging to House Tyrell. Obviously, House Tyrell went extinct, but naming a newly-lorded bastard Warden of the South reinforces the stupid plot line in the finale that the Reach has been apparently devoid of human life ever since the Lannister army sacked Highgarden and then Drogon wasted the Tarlys. Though still ridiculous, it would've made more sense to name Bronn or the new Dornish prince Warden of the South. Also, I suppose it would've been too complex to include who now rules Casterly Rock and bears the title Warden of the West, as I doubt Tyrion would be free or have earned enough support to claim those things.

[stargazer01]

You know, as much as I want to condemn such toxicity in fandom and social media in general, the people who loathe this final season of Game Of Thrones (and I am one of them) have a valid point at least as far as the writing is concerned. This show began as a brilliant adaptation of an epic fantasy series, struggled a bit when the writers/showrunners ran out of source material to adapt, and then just spiraled out of control when D&D decided to streamline the story for the sake of just getting it over with as quick as possible, despite HBO being ready and willing to throw more money and episodes and seasons at them.

D&D dropped the ball and I think they are cowards to have pulled out of their Comic-Con appearance. Yeah, they would have been in for a tsunami of criticism and I doubt most of it would've been civil. But they created and then ruined one of the most popular TV shows of all time, a truly global phenomenon, and when their product has that kind of profile, they should demonstrate some accountability for why the final season of the show was not well-received at all.

Though not comparable in genre or its fan following, David Simon, the creator/showrunner of The Wire has repeatedly been grilled--even by Harvard academics!--over his decision to kill off Stringer Bell at the end of season 3. And Simon at least has the balls to stare down the upset/disappointed/royally pissed-off fans and tell them: "Because his story was done. He played the game and he lost."

I think the hate for the final season is deserved. I just will never agree with those people sending death threats or violent stuff like that. That's going to far. This is just a TV show not real life. I think D&D's attitude is another source of angst for the many fans who loathed the last season. In general, people will love or hate what they want. I hated the last season so much, I have no desire to watch any prequel or sequel at all. I don't see the point when my fave Jon and Dany were done so ugly.

[Jackalope89]

I think the hate for the final season is deserved. I just will never agree with those people sending death threats or violent stuff like that. That's going to far. This is just a TV show not real life. I think D&D's attitude is another source of angst for the many fans who loathed the last season. In general, people will love or hate what they want. I hated the last season so much, I have no desire to watch any prequel or sequel at all. I don't see the point when my fave Jon and Dany were done so ugly.

The plot points for Jon and Dany I feel are fine. But the way many of those actions came about, it was like watching a crappy fanfic be made into a series.

[Hellion]

The plot points for Jon and Dany I feel are fine. But the way many of those actions came about, it was like watching a crappy fanfic be made into a series.

I agree. I actually liked the culminating character arcs for Jon and Dany. They were both built up to be the two best leaders on the show, but Dany's dark side had been foreshadowed throughout the show's run. Ultimately, Jon trumps Dany because he knows what is right and (usually) acts to do the right thing. I also thought Jon's self-imposed exile beyond the Wall with the remnants of the wildlings was poetic and very bittersweet. I just think, specifically in regards to the final episode, everything after Jon killing Dany was rushed and nonsensical. The Great Council and the standoff against Grey Worm and the Unsullied was very dumb. The choosing of a new king happened too quickly, there was no debate about Jon's claim to the throne, the writing sacrificed nuance for one final shocker: Bran the Broken.

I don't want GRRM to change his envisioned ending based on fan reactions, and I'm glad that he says he isn't, but I'm counting on his conclusions making more sense within his narrative than the show's did.

[MichaelC]

[Punisher007]

I love Lindsay's videos. She clearly puts a lot of time and effort into them. And yeah she highlights a lot of the problems here nicely.

D&D also seem to really hate the idea of good female rulers.. Seriously, Dany, Cersei, Ellaria Sands (despite the latter being the exact opposite in the books), etc. All painted as crazy, psychotic, murdering despots on the show. And Sansa is the "good one" simply by being slightly less of a cold-blooded uber-jerk, seriously WTH D&D?

Oh and Olenna and Lyanna Mormont both died and their houses went extinct, so yeah there's that as well.

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

I love Lindsay's videos. She clearly puts a lot of time and effort into them. And yeah she highlights a lot of the problems here nicely.

D&D also seem to really hate the idea of good female rulers.. Seriously, Dany, Cersei, Ellaria Sands (despite the latter being the exact opposite in the books), etc. All painted as crazy, psychotic, murdering despots on the show. And Sansa is the "good one" simply by being slightly less of a cold-blooded uber-jerk, seriously WTH D&D?

Oh and Olenna and Lyanna Mormont both died and their houses went extinct, so yeah there's that as well.

Tbf Cersei is far more competent in the show than the book and Dany is portrayed far more like a savior messiah figure in the show than she is in the books where she is effectively a young teenage girl with Dragons and an army. Ellaria was ruined but so was everything involved with Dorne.

Also none of the male rulers were portrayed all that well.

[XPac]

I love Lindsay's videos. She clearly puts a lot of time and effort into them. And yeah she highlights a lot of the problems here nicely.

D&D also seem to really hate the idea of good female rulers.. Seriously, Dany, Cersei, Ellaria Sands (despite the latter being the exact opposite in the books), etc. All painted as crazy, psychotic, murdering despots on the show. And Sansa is the "good one" simply by being slightly less of a cold-blooded uber-jerk, seriously WTH D&D?

Oh and Olenna and Lyanna Mormont both died and their houses went extinct, so yeah there's that as well.

Is there a ruler on the show, male or female, that doesn't suck?

[AndrewCrossett]

Is there a ruler on the show, male or female, that doesn't suck?

Lyanna Mormont seems to be the most competent ruler on the show (even if her rule only extended to Bear Island). I believe that Sansa and Yara will do fine, as well.

[XPac]

Lyanna Mormont seems to be the most competent ruler on the show (even if her rule only extended to Bear Island). I believe that Sansa and Yara will do fine, as well.

With no Night King and Bran ruling the 6 Kingdoms, I'll agree Sansa and Yara will probably do just fine. I think everyone will do fine with most if not all of the external threats dealt with.

I'd be less confident in Sansa if she had to deal with even half the stuff the previous rulers had to, but at this point it likely is moot.

[Sutekh]

I'd be less confident in Sansa if she had to deal with even half the stuff the previous rulers had to, but at this point it likely is moot.

The episode where an army led by Littlefinger shows up to save Jon and his forces at her request (the Battle of the Bastards?), where she's all smug to Jon and utterly counting on Littlefinger to deliver (when the last thing he 'delivered' was handing her over to Ramsay Bolton like a sack of potatoes) made me think that he was just not going to show up with the knights of the Vale (or, worse, show up and be on Ramsay's side, *again,* leaving her looking like a naive fool for trusting him, *again*).

As a result of that one scene, it's been hard for me to see Sansa as anything other than a person who was handed whatever successes she has had, by the writing, and not particularly great at this ruling thing.

[Gray Lensman]

I love Lindsay's videos. She clearly puts a lot of time and effort into them. And yeah she highlights a lot of the problems here nicely.

D&D also seem to really hate the idea of good female rulers.. Seriously, Dany, Cersei, Ellaria Sands (despite the latter being the exact opposite in the books), etc. All painted as crazy, psychotic, murdering despots on the show. And Sansa is the "good one" simply by being slightly less of a cold-blooded uber-jerk, seriously WTH D&D?

Oh and Olenna and Lyanna Mormont both died and their houses went extinct, so yeah there's that as well.

I have yet to watch this latest video she did, but her last one points out what may very well have been the biggest problem with the final season - the writers throwing out every bit of building story arc and foreshadowing in favor of shock twists. The Hound moving past vengeance? Screw that! Cleganebowl! Jaime growing over the course of 7 seasons? Screw that! Back to incestville!

There are comic writers who do the same tired thing, change the story if the fans figure out where it is going, and the resulting works are just as bad. A good story can be rewatched or reread, and twists will never save anything a second time around. Basically, if the story can't survive spoilers, it wasn't a good story to begin with. Shocks and twists can enhance the first viewing, but they shouldn't be the foundation for anything, because by their very nature, they can't hold up.

[XPac]

I have yet to watch this latest video she did, but her last one points out what may very well have been the biggest problem with the final season - the writers throwing out every bit of building story arc and foreshadowing in favor of shock twists. The Hound moving past vengeance? Screw that! Cleganebowl! Jaime growing over the course of 7 seasons? Screw that! Back to incestville!

There are comic writers who do the same tired thing, change the story if the fans figure out where it is going, and the resulting works are just as bad. A good story can be rewatched or reread, and twists will never save anything a second time around. Basically, if the story can't survive spoilers, it wasn't a good story to begin with. Shocks and twists can enhance the first viewing, but they shouldn't be the foundation for anything, because by their very nature, they can't hold up.

Honestly I have no issues with Jamie going back for Cersi. To me it made perfect sense. Not only is she his sister, but she's carrying his unborn child. I'd frankly think less of Jamie if he didn't at least TRY and protect them.

The Hound is a trickier issue. I think him moving past vengeance does a better job of conveying his growth as a character. But if we never got Cleganebowl, I think a good portion of the viewership would frankly feel ripped off for not getting it. It's sort of a damned if ya do and damned if ya don't sort of thing. Hound talking Aria out of her vengence while still getting his own is SORT OF a compromise. Sort of.