Game of Thrones

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

Yeah not buying it. A Northman sits on the throne. Kinda of bullshit to say Bran has the best story but yet not good enough to convince his own people and sister to follow him.

Why any Kingdom would accept the rule of someone rejected by his own kin is beyond me.

It doesn’t matter. The Northerners consider themselves a completely different country from the rest of Westeros.

The wars in the North were over whether the Stark’s or Bolton’s were kings. Then you had the South where you had Kings like the Lannisters fighting the Gardner’s in the Reach and Riverlands Lotds fighting the Ironborn and Stormlands. They were warring king’s of the same race fighting for dominion over a continent.

Then Argon came and said he wanted everything and he lumped the North in as part of that even though they rarely tried to acknowledge the southerners. And pretty much everyone whose ever held power knew the North was different. Cersei in season 1 told Joffrey it was foolish to try to dominate the North as it was too big and too far to be held. Then in Winter it’s a completely separate game and you’ll freeze out there like it’s Siberia.

It’s not the same, even with a Northerner on the throne they don’t want to be connected to the other houses same affairs in the South that they have nothing to do with. The Southerners were reliant on the Tyrell’s for crops, the Lannisters for trade and gold, the Riverlands for routes, etc. The North exists independently and can ignore the South forever if they want. Aegon was the only reason they got connected. It to dragons to drag them into a union with the Andals.

The rest of them are FAR more reliant on each other and if they don’t have one unified King they will be back to warring over everything I mentioned earlier. It benefits an interconnected area to have one king who can settle disputes with war.

[remydat]

I can buy a lot of the Kingdoms accepting Bran after people like Dany and Cersi honestly. I think Starks have a reputation for being good honorable people, and after the last couple rulers they have had, that's probably a nice change of pace. Plus, the fact that he can't have kids likely is a plus for a lot of people as he can be seen as more of a transitional ruler anyways. No one loves the guy, but no one has a problem with him either... that may be the best they can do on relatively short notice.

Missing the point. Sansa and the North didnt accept him. A bit silly for everyone else to accept him when his own kin doesnt.

Everything you said should be applicable to Sansa and the North

[remydat]

It doesn’t matter. The Northerners consider themselves a completely different country from the rest of Westeros.

The wars in the North were over whether the Stark’s or Bolton’s were kings. Then you had the South where you had Kings like the Lannisters fighting the Gardner’s in the Reach and Riverlands Lotds fighting the Ironborn and Stormlands. They were warring king’s of the same race fighting for dominion over a continent.

Then Argon came and said he wanted everything and he lumped the North in as part of that even though they rarely tried to acknowledge the southerners. And pretty much everyone whose ever held power knew the North was different. Cersei in season 1 told Joffrey it was foolish to try to dominate the North as it was too big and too far to be held. Then in Winter it’s a completely separate game and you’ll freeze out there like it’s Siberia.

It’s not the same, even with a Northerner on the throne they don’t want to be connected to the other houses same affairs in the South that they have nothing to do with. The Southerners were reliant on the Tyrell’s for crops, the Lannisters for trade and gold, the Riverlands for routes, etc. The North exists independently and can ignore the South forever if they want. Aegon was the only reason they got connected. It to dragons to drag them into a union with the Andals.

The rest of them are FAR more reliant on each other and if they don’t have one unified King they will be back to warring over everything I mentioned earlier. It benefits an interconnected area to have one king who can settle disputes with war.

They were connected for 300 years and during Robert's rule. To accept those guys but not their own kin is pretty odd.

[Midvillian1322]

Oy still dont know how I feel about the way this show ended. Still processing, but them Bran memes be cracking me up. The one where he says I'm no longer Bran stark I'm the three eyed raven..... unless you want me to rule all this ****.

[Starter Set]

I can buy a lot of the Kingdoms accepting Bran after people like Dany and Cersi honestly

Doesn't make a lot of sense really, and that's from someone who likes Bran.

He's a kid, and a creepy one at that. Why would anyone want him as a king? Cause his dad was cool? Cause he's on wheels? Cause Tyrion says so?

No, in the show it comes out as ridiculous. Maybe in the books it's going to be better, let's hope so.

[XPac]

Missing the point. Sansa and the North didnt accept him. A bit silly for everyone else to accept him when his own kin doesnt.

Everything you said should be apolicable to Sansa and the North

It's trickier for the other nations to do that, because they're not necessarily as self-sufficient as the north is. North is relatively fine on it's own, but the other kingdoms to one degree or another are more dependent on each other. So being independent might not necessarily be in their best interests, even if they have the option. In the least, they probably don't want to rush into that decision.

[XPac]

Doesn't make a lot of sense really, and that's from someone who likes Bran.

He's a kid, and a creepy one at that. Why would anyone want him as a king? Cause his dad was cool? Cause he's on wheels? Cause Tyrion says so?

No, in the show it comes out as ridiculous. Maybe in the books it's going to be better, let's hope so.

It's weird to us, but frankly they have had a bunch of kid rulers. Even Dany is pretty young.

He's not necessarily qualified on his own per say anymore than Cersi's kids were, but with the right hand and a good support staff it's doable.

And to be honest, a king with the abilities he has is kind of handy. He arguably is of better use serving the kingdom than just sitting in his room in Winterfell.

[remydat]

In all seriousness, you are not keeping much of anything straight right now. The difference between "collateral damage" and "mass murder" was in the eyes of the beholders. To Dany, she saw innocents who died in this attack as the price of siding with Cersei in a war. (see: collateral damage) To Varys and Tyrion these people mattered more than the war and not doing everything possible to protect them was the equal of murder. I don't know why this is so hard for you to understand.

Secondly, it is possible for humans to have two different thoughts about two different situations. Tyrion can be both worried about his brother and worried about the people of KL. Clearly he was worried about his brother. He also clearly cared about the people because he interrupted the meeting about the attack to plead with Dany about the bells. The name of the freaking episode is "bells".

Cmon man, your point doesn't have much ground to stand on because you are ignoring what inconveniences your argument. It is nonsense to claim Tyrion and Varys weren't worried about her killing many innocent people and your justifications are only getting more bizarre.

Many discussions in this thread are matters of opinion, but what you are claiming with the evidence you are claiming, isn't an opinion. It's plainly false. I think you can criticize the way this show was plotted without falsehoods.

No actually collateral damage is not in the eye of the beholder. It has a very specific meaining in the context of war.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collateral_damage

As Dany intended to kill those people they are not collateral damage. They were her actual targets.

You are confused. I am saying they were worried about them dying as she tried to defeat Cersei ie collateral damage. Instead they died after Cersei's forces surrendered and as intended targets that were massacred.

Please dont respond trying to argue the definition of collateral damage as it would be a waste of both our times as not going to accept reinventing the meaning of words. The meaning is clear and what she did to the civlians does not qualify because it was intentional.

[remydat]

It's trickier for the other nations to do that, because they're not necessarily as self-sufficient as the north is. North is relatively fine on it's own, but the other kingdoms to one degree or another are more dependent on each other. So being independent might not necessarily be in their best interests, even if they have the option. In the least, they probably don't want to rush into that decision.

Except of course Yarra already asked for independence from Dany so not tricky at all. Look dude the writers are dumb. They forget their own plot.

This was proven when one of the idiots claimed Dany forgot about Euron when Euron was mentioned in the epsiode she supposedly forgot him in and it is proven by the fact Yarra clearly wanted independence earlier but then doesnt even bother asking Bran about it.

[remydat]

I think that's where the disconnect you're having is... you're expectation is that an insane villain should still be acting like a sane person. Conversely, I think the point of having an insane villain is for them to NOT act sane. If what Dany was doing was reasonable and made perfect sense, she wouldn't be the villain.

She's a person, viotile in nature anyways, who apparently by genetics has a greater tendency to snap, placed in a very emotionally difficult situation, and snapping. No, she didn't necessarily go to measures as extreme as this in the past. She wasn't as emotionally burned, and she had a support system in place to help keep her in check. But for Dany, GoT was the journey for a villain... she didn't start out as the villain, but became one as the things which kept her in check were removed and the loss of friends and loved ones took a bigger toll on her. She didn't go this far until now because she didn't snap until now. Not every villain was born one out of the womb... it had to start somewhere and for Dany this was where it started.

Yeah agree to disagree. My previous points still stand.

[Havok83]

Except of course Yarra already asked for independence from Dany so not tricky at all. Look dude the writers are dumb. They forget their own plot.

This was proven when one of the idiots claimed Dany forgot about Euron when Euron was mentioned in the epsiode she supposedly forgot him in and it is proven by the fact Yarra clearly wanted independence earlier but then doesnt even bother asking Bran about it.

They didnt forget it; they ignored it and with like 20 minutes left in the show, there wasnt any time to get into that. Sansa also made a good argument in that the North suffered the most from the Great War and earned the right to be independent.. They acted as a buffer between the Dead and the South and saved them all. Yara cant say her men suffered the same casualties

[remydat]

They didnt forget it; they ignored it and with like 20 minutes left in the show, there wasnt any time to get into that. Sansa also made a good argument in that the North suffered the most from the Great War and earned the right to be independent.. They acted as a buffer between the Dead and the South and saved them all. Yara cant say her men suffered the same casualties

This is silly. Took Sansa 30 seconds to ask and be granted independence so Yarra could have been granted independence in same amount of time. To say there was not any time to cover independence of a Kingdom but time for Tyrion to reareange chairs is absurd.

Further HBO wanted more episodes but Dumb and Dumber said they could do it in 6. So if they forget or ignore this stuff that is entirely their fault as it was they choice to cut the season short.

[Havok83]

This is silly. Took Sansa 30 seconds to ask and be granted independence so Yarra could have been granted independence in same amount of time. To say there was not any time to cover independence of a Kingdom but time for Tyrion to reareange chairs is absurd.

Further HBO wanted more episodes but Dumb and Dumber said they could do it in 6. So if they forget or ignore this stuff that is entirely their fault as it was they choice to cut the season short.

true but it is what it is. There were only 6 episodes so an extended political play wasnt in the cards.

As for Yara, you already claim it made no sense for The North to become indepedent. If they granted that to Yara, too, then why not the rest of the Kingdoms? That undermines making Bran king of the 7 Kingdoms if he's just that of KL. The series left him as king of the 6 kingdoms but I firmly believe there are already plots to change that and seize power. We dont really need to see that play out

[Theleviathan]

No actually collateral damage is not in the eye of the beholder. It has a very specific meaining in the context of war.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collateral_damage

As Dany intended to kill those people they are not collateral damage. They were her actual targets.

You are confused. I am saying they were worried about them dying as she tried to defeat Cersei ie collateral damage. Instead they died after Cersei's forces surrendered and as intended targets that were massacred.

Please dont respond trying to argue the definition of collateral damage as it would be a waste of both our times as not going to accept reinventing the meaning of words. The meaning is clear and what she did to the civlians does not qualify because it was intentional.

And I'm not going to accept some silly semantics game man. That's weak.

You were trying to argue about whether Tyrion or Varys were worried about her intentions. So you have two choices - you can keep playing semantics and putting so many caveats on your point that they are narrowed down to meaningless, or you can accept that, yes, her advisors were worried about her actions killing innocents.

And they were. That's why Varys saw Jon as a solution to the "problem". That's why Tyrion pleaded with her about the bells. That's why Tyrion hesitated about the bells - he thought she would follow through on her word and end it. He didn't start dancing with relief, he held his breath to see what would happen. Why? Because he still had concerns she would kill the innocents.

They were worried many innocents would die because of her malice or indifference. Period. This is not a thing to opine about, that's just what happened in the show. I don't know why that's even a point of debate.

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

They were connected for 300 years and during Robert's rule. To accept those guys but not their own kin is pretty odd.

Those guys had dragons that forced them into it