Game of Thrones

[XPac]

Honestly, after episode 4, Jon had the key to Dany's heart, but instead he rejected her. If he had realized how alone and broken she was, he could have comforted her in a way only he knew how. We saw in season 7 how she saw him as a superior man and an equal and fell for him for that reason. But no... he rejected her in an emotional level and she snapped. I'm sorry but I don't recognize this Jon.

You can't entirely blame Jon for being a bit weird about their relationship after discovering that she's his aunt. I get that in some parts of Westeros that's less weird and I wouldn't even have huge issue with him deciding to be with her regardless of their blood relation but still... for him it's kinda weird.

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

Honestly, after episode 4, Jon had the key to Dany's heart, but instead he rejected her. If he had realized how alone and broken she was, he could have comforted her in a way only he knew how. We saw in season 7 how she saw him as a superior man and an equal and fell for him for that reason. But no... he rejected her in an emotional level and she snapped. I'm sorry but I don't recognize this Jon.

What? Jon has been with exactly one women his entire life and actively avoided women because he didn’t want to father bastards like him. In both cases he ultimately couldn’t accept their love and give himself to them because he understood that they weren’t about the same thing.

Jon’s always been a Northerner at heart who will do the honest thing even if it is not the best play

[Punisher007]

It was a horrible act, yeah, but a single act.

If you count all the numerous atrocities people like Tywin or Roose committed over the years, I'm sure the bodycount would surpass Dany's.

They also didn't have the acts of compassion/mercy that she has. Basically, the show did a poor job of making this believable. And the rushed pacing isn't helping.

Also I guess I was right about Euron having the "invincible villain, until he doesn't" thing going on.

[Punisher007]

It was a poetic ending for Jaime and Cersei and was surprisingly fitting. They both lasted in the game a lot longer than they had any merit to last. They had plenty of opportunities to quit while they were ahead. Cersei was intent to cling to power by any means necessary. She clung to power for the sake of having it. Jaime spurned Brienne and his redemption arc to go back to Cersei. Not to kill her, like we all thought, but to be with her. SMH

Poetic to see the walls close in on them, literally and figuratively.

Not really no, "crushed by debris" is just lame. Also Jaimie is one of the most butchered characters in this entire show sadly.

[Master Planner]

It was a horrible act, yeah, but a single act.

If you count all the numerous atrocities people like Tywin or Roose committed over the years, I'm sure the bodycount would surpass Dany's.

Tywin always mixed fear with good PR. He is hated for sacking King's Landing, but he is also known for rewarding those who served him. He is the guy who would use guys like Gregor Clegane to rape and kill and instill fear in his enemies, but he is also a guy who would reward you, if you serve him.

Roose is a sociopath, but he was alwasy discreat about his crimes. That's the problem with his bastard son. Ramsay could not help himself being low key and keep his sadism in check.

Danny, she had the city surrended, yet she decided "screw love and PR, they will at least fear me" and go into a berseker rage. The ship has sailed for diplomatic solutions. Now it's fear and blood.

[XPac]

It was a horrible act, yeah, but a single act.

If you count all the numerous atrocities people like Tywin or Roose committed over the years, I'm sure the bodycount would surpass Dany's.

I think the thing which arguably makes Dany's actions more "mad" than say Tywin, is that when she slaughtered perhaps thousands of innocent women and children it was unecessary. Tywin will kill people, but it won't be just for the heck of it. He's an evil bastard, but he'll do it for a reason even if it's a purely selfish reason. The people Dany slaughtered were both innocent and basically died for nothing.

So Tywin is a dick... but he's probably completely sane. Dany on the other hand might be losing it.

[Flash Gordon]

With all due respect, you're skipping some very important parts of the book as well as the show.

1. Viserys may have started out saving Dany out of sisterly affection, but he blamed her exclusively for their mother's death. She was a means to an end - Targaryens marry their sisters to take the throne, so he needed his sister in order to restore Targaryen rule. She became a symbol and an object that he treated like dirt.

2. He didn't just knock her around a bit. He physically, emotionally and sexually abused her and then sold her to be wedded and raped by Khal Drogo. From Dany's point of view, even if he had been the 'loving brother' you portray, this is the ultimate in betrayals. He promised her she would rule by his side, and then traded her like a goat to a barbarian. Oh yeah, and the night before she gets married, he tries to rape her.

3. Despite having wise advisors, Viserys ignored them because he was a petulant child. He was told that the Dothraki don't buy and sell but receive and offer gifts, so he needed to be patient. But he was so arrogant and angry over the 'indignities' he felt he was suffering. He kept demanding his army *now* or else...what?

4. He then became ridiculously jealous of Dany for being in a position over him, so much so that he grabs her by the throat and calls her a slut. When he's punished for his assault on her, it only makes him more angry. He tries to steal the dragon eggs for his own ends and when that sister he supposedly cares for so much tries to be nice to him and offer him clothing fit for a Khal, he hits her again.

5. Here's the kicker you left out - he drew his sword in a holy place, and in front of Drogo, he threatened to kill Dany *and* their unborn child to get what he wanted because he sold his sister and wanted payment. He held his nephew and sister hostage in front of Khal Drogo to get what he demanded despite being told to wait for it.

So Dany, who had been beaten, abused, sold and degraded by her brother is oddly not upset that, right after he put a sword to her belly and threatened to cut out her unborn child because they were in a place where the Dothraki can't draw blood but *he* can? No, I don't blame her at all. She repeatedly reached out to him, and he assaulted and tried to rob and rape her, so yes, he may have started out years and years ago as a caring brother, but that went away a long time ago. In the books Dany was what, 13? So all she's really known is what her brother told her - that he saved her life, they were going to marry and take back what was rightfully his (not theirs). At no point does he ever show any love for his sister, only that he values her as a prop and then, later, as property. He believed he owned her and, in the end, he got what he deserved and I see no reason why Dany should have been at all sympathetic after all he had done to her.

Exactly!

Very well said.

[Doctor Know]

Not really no, "crushed by debris" is just lame. Also Jaimie is one of the most butchered characters in this entire show sadly.

Cersei has been dead weight since season 5. D&D likes the actress, so they kept her for another 4 years. For reasons.
Jaime's actor and character are popular. But Jaime's character destiny is tied to Cersei. So they had to carry both this far. Season 6 was when both characters should've left the story. Keep Stannis and Margeery, kill Cersei and Jaime.

[MindofShadow]

Cersei has been dead weight since season 5. D&D likes the actress, so they kept her for another 4 years. For reasons.

Isn't the "reason" being that they couldn't introduce fAegon that late, especially with no book to pull from?

[Punisher007]

Jaimie's character arc was about redemption, that's what's been building up for EIGHT seasons. That's how Season 7 ended with him.

But no, throw that all away because "subversion." Have D&D been taking tips from Rian Johnson, because I sure hope not.

Also the logical and writing holes are so huge in this episode that you could fly a Star Destroyer through them.

[kidfresh512]

You can't entirely blame Jon for being a bit weird about their relationship after discovering that she's his aunt. I get that in some parts of Westeros that's less weird and I wouldn't even have huge issue with him deciding to be with her regardless of their blood relation but still... for him it's kinda weird.

I actually think they way they have handled the revelation with Jon and Dany being related is one of the best things the writers and actors have done. Dany doesn't care and still wants him. But, Jon is clearly weirded out and skeeved about it and shows it with his acting proclaiming love and "attraction" rather than actually saying it or articulating it.

Varys and Tyrion had to actually articulate the difference that a Targareayn wouldn't mind but Jon was raised in the North and that thing doesn't fly.

[XPac]

Cersei has been dead weight since season 5. D&D likes the actress, so they kept her for another 4 years. For reasons.
Jaime's actor and character are popular. But Jaime's character destiny is tied to Cersei. So they had to carry both this far. Season 6 was when both characters should've left the story. Keep Stannis and Margeery, kill Cersei and Jaime.

Cersei was end game. Anyone else sitting on the Iron Throne when Dany was finally able to take it wouldn't have felt anywhere near as satisfying. I'd bet money in the books when Dany is finally ready to take the throne, Cersei will be sitting on it as well. No other character is buiilt up well enough to replace her. Margeery was an okay character in her own right, but it wouldn't be the same.

[MindofShadow]

Jaimie's character arc was about redemption, that's what's been building up for EIGHT seasons. That's how Season 7 ended with him.

But no, throw that all away because "subversion." Have D&D been taking tips from Rian Johnson, because I sure hope not.

Also the logical and writing holes are so huge in this episode that you could fly a Star Destroyer through them.

I mean, come on, no way GRRM didn't tell them how it ends with Jamie. people are fanficing too much with the characters they care about.

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

Cersei has been dead weight since season 5. D&D likes the actress, so they kept her for another 4 years. For reasons.
Jaime's actor and character are popular. But Jaime's character destiny is tied to Cersei. So they had to carry both this far. Season 6 was when both characters should've left the story. Keep Stannis and Margeery, kill Cersei and Jaime.

Do we actually know this or are people just assuming this because it seemed pretty obvious that Cersei ascended to the throne in Season 6 just as Jon was crowned and Dany sailed to Westeros to set up this war.

[mogwen]

Daenery's life is a tragedy, like she was bound to accomplish what her father couldn't, the burning of King's Landing.
She lost, dismissed or executed all those that could have restreined her. Now her fury knows no bound. Simple as that.