Game of Thrones

[AndrewCrossett]

Gendry being king would have made more sense at this point honestly.

I was saying that all season long, and I still think it. Bran would have made a great Master of Whispers, especially since he probably wouldn't be corruptible, would have no political agenda, and would be much better at putting information in context than a normal human spymaster.

I hope GRRM finishes the books just so I can see how he arrived at this choice (which I assume is his, based on what we've been told).

[remydat]

Variant,

1. A leader doesn't just leave their land with no concern for who rules in her stead. Dany put Daario in charge for example. So I think it is far more logical to assume Ellaria put someone in charge while she was gone that is aligned with her. I am not hyping Dorne as a significant player. I am moreso pointing out if Dorne and Yarra join Greyworm, Sansa's position is incredibly weak. Let's be real, the Starks are really the only ones that are gung ho about saving Jon and with Greyworm already holding KL, he is better position to defend it than Sansa is to take it.

2. You are overselling it because I see no logical reason for the people of the Reach to follow Bronn, Sansa or whoever else into battle. Especially since it was a Lannister that gave the Reach to Bronn to save his skin. I think they remain neutral or you have a split where some people fight for both sides. The point being the Reach is not some monolithic group that is just going to side with Sansa. There is no political savvy that overcomes Tyrion being a Lannister and Sansa being from the North and Bronn being a commoner elevated by a Lannister. And again the Iron Born have been shown to build boats faster than anyone and currently have the only Navy. So no, the Reach is not going to outbuild them. Nothing supports this. You can't just take the Iron Born's ability to build ships and then pretend it applies to everyone when the TV show has shown repeatedly shown the Iron Born have a particularly skill for it, when the only navy left shown on the show is the Iron Born, and when Bronn will have trouble keeping the populace under control much less building ships for him.

3. Dany was still Queen by right of lineage and conquest. The Unsullied are fighting to punish her murderer. That is all. Greyworm has no say beyond the fact that he currently holds King's Landing and Jon. So the question is if Jon dies, who will support whom as Greyworm really has every legal right to execute Jon for regicide as commander of Dany's armies.

4. Doesn't matter who rules Riverlands. They can't send their army to KL's without being attacked by Iron Islands in this scenario. It is just strategically a stupid decision as again Iron Islands are right off the coast of the Riverlands. You can't get around the geography.

5. Tyrion was already the outcast of his family with little respect on the Rock because of Tywin's hatred of him. And I agree he is not really responsible for Jamie being an idiot but it was not his fault his mother died yet he was still blamed for it. My point is there will be people from the Rock that view Tyrion as bringing death where ever he does. He killed his Mom, his Dad and was Dany's right hand as she killed his brother and sister. So don't think he has much sway over the Rock at this moment realistically.

6. Cersei brought a lot of the people from the surrounding towns into the city as that was the whole point of her using them as shields. So at this stage very doubtful the surrounding areas have the population to really be a threat. I am sure there are some but you talking about a largely scattered and terrified group of people.

7. My point about revealing Jon is a Targ would be at the council prior to Jon dying. The point being it may then erode any support for his death. If we assume Greyworm killed him before the council and let's say threw his head at Sansa feet then his being a Targ would still be relevant as it may still result in people not being keen to support Greyworm as instead of a bastard killing the rightful air, Sansa can claim it was Jon merely asserting his rights as rightful heir over a usurper. So that would be Sansa's best play to erode support for Greyworm by Yarra or Dorne.

[MindofShadow]

Gendry being king would have made more sense at this point honestly.

Putting a "commoner" on the throne, one who is a Baratheon (who was loved by the common folk I do believe) and having him being guided by Tyrion, Davos, Bran I could buy I suppose. If it isnt Jon or Dany, then it is going to be slightly an asspull anyway, but Bran was the biggest asspull other than democracy imo


I think my biggest issue with S8 is that it was fan servicy with the wrong **** (like Bronn and Sam) and tried to subvert expectation with the wrong **** (no jon vs NK for example) and then forgetting one of the "cores" of GOT is that things are somewhat logical and actions have consequences and dont put people in situations where they should die without giving them a reasonable out.

[remydat]

Tyrion is despised by too many. But looks LIKE bran is letting Tyrion rules mostly anyway. The kids only half there

Yep, for a world that believes in superstition and such, the dude has essentially killed his mother, father, brother and sister. There would realistically be a ton of people that view Tyrion as bringing ruin and destruction to the people he is close to.

I was saying that all season long, and I still think it. Bran would have made a great Master of Whispers, especially since he probably wouldn't be corruptible, would have no political agenda, and would be much better at putting information in context than a normal human spymaster.

I hope GRRM finishes the books just so I can see how he arrived at this choice (which I assume is his, based on what we've been told).

Yeah the dude will need a lot more story and development to make him a realistic choice for king that people can support. Tyrion's bullshit about who has a better story was just terrible. Like most of these characters have never even inquired as to what the hell is a 3 eye raven and how does Bron know what he knows. You would think there would be more explanation and inquiry as to what that really means.

[XPac]

Gendry being king would have made more sense at this point honestly.

I think Tyrion wanted to nominate a king wgo would be more sympathetic towards Jon and himself. Gendry is on fence. He was close to Arya, but she shot him down. And because he owes Dany his position, he might be harsher passing judgememt on those that betrayed her. At least harsher than Bran. He also might be more hesitant to give the north its independence than Bran. If they want a pro Stark finish they probably needed a Stark on the throne.

[XPac]

Yep, for a world that believes in superstition and such, the dude has essentially killed his mother, father, brother and sister. There would realistically be a ton of people that view Tyrion as bringing ruin and destruction to the people he is close to.

For anyone that actually knows his family it probably won't be a problem.

[remydat]

For anyone that actually knows his family it probably won't be a problem.

Not true. Everyone knew the Mad King was Mad but Jamie still got **** for being Kingslayer. The world of GoT still would look at the fact he destroyed his whole family even if his family was despised.

[remydat]

Putting a "commoner" on the throne, one who is a Baratheon (who was loved by the common folk I do believe) and having him being guided by Tyrion, Davos, Bran I could buy I suppose. If it isnt Jon or Dany, then it is going to be slightly an asspull anyway, but Bran was the biggest asspull other than democracy imo


I think my biggest issue with S8 is that it was fan servicy with the wrong **** (like Bronn and Sam) and tried to subvert expectation with the wrong **** (no jon vs NK for example) and then forgetting one of the "cores" of GOT is that things are somewhat logical and actions have consequences and dont put people in situations where they should die without giving them a reasonable out.

Gendry would still be the rightful heir. Once Dany elevated him to Lord thereby rendering his being a bastard irrelevant, Gendry is now the last Barratheon and highest ranking Targ as Robert was part Targ both from his grandmother being a Targ and because the founder of his house Orys was said to be Aegon's bastard half brother.

I would hope in the books Martin brings this up and then explains why the rules of succession are not followee which I suspect will be people are not keen on his being a bastard and Gendry will not press his claim.

[XPac]

Not true. Everyone knew the Mad King was Mad but Jamie still got **** for being Kingslayer. The world of GoT still would look at the fact he destroyed his whole family even if his family was despised.

In the least, I don't think it's a problem for Tyrion yet. He's killed his father some time ago, the the only ones broken up about it are his family (kinda). And for the most part he's done pretty well for himself since them.

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

Gendry being king would have made more sense at this point honestly.

It wouldn’t for several reasons.

1. He’s easily the newest high lords. He’s had about month to get back to castle and consolidate his vassals. He’s just getting up to speed and hasn’t made any new connections.

2. Any claim he had on the Iron Throne was abdicated when he accepted Dany was the queen who could raise him from bastard. That was an implicit understanding that he was conceding that the Targaryen Queen was the one who could lawfully do that. Likewise once Cersei was overthrown, any semblance of the Baratheon dynasty was usurped.

3. He just wouldn’t be a good king. He’s a commoner smith. He has never led anybody and has no skills with the nobles.

[Gaelforce]

It wouldn’t for several reasons.

1. He’s easily the newest high lords. He’s had about month to get back to castle and consolidate his vassals. He’s just getting up to speed and hasn’t made any new connections.

2. Any claim he had on the Iron Throne was abdicated when he accepted Dany was the queen who could raise him from bastard. That was an implicit understanding that he was conceding that the Targaryen Queen was the one who could lawfully do that. Likewise once Cersei was overthrown, any semblance of the Baratheon dynasty was usurped.

3. He just wouldn’t be a good king. He’s a commoner smith. He has never led anybody and has no skills with the nobles.

1. Bran isn't exactly prime material - he is the youngest surviving Stark kid and is about 15 years old. He's just as new to being a 'high lord' as Gendry, plus he's younger, disabled and just plain weird.

2. He doesn't abdicate anything by bending the knee, especially when that queen dies. Jon represented house Stark and bent the knee, but that doesn't mean the Starks abdicated anything. Cersei, for example, had zero claim on the throne as she was never in the line of succession, but that didn't stop her from being named Queen. The Starks and the Greyjoys allied with the Targaryens in taking down the Lannister on the throne, but once the head Targaryen has died, there's nothing to stop anyone from deciding whether or not to put a Baratheon back on the throne. Considering Robert's reign was relatively peaceful, both the lords and the people would welcome his son, bastard or not.

3. Bran is the Three Eyed Raven who can't be lord of anything. The key to being a good King, as proven in the final episode, is who the King surrounds himself with. Bran pretty much made it clear that he's not really going to run anything and he's leaving it to the small council.

With the way they left things at the end, just about anyone could have been named King since it was no longer being decided by succession or blood but by who the people and the lords would accept. Gendry would be more accepted by the people as a Baratheon, and just as able to rule (probably moreso since he'll probably spend more time in the here-and-now than Bran ) Keep the same small council, add Bran as his Master of Whispers and long live Gendry the Smith, first of his name, leader of the six kingdoms, etc.

[XPac]

1. Bran isn't exactly prime material - he is the youngest surviving Stark kid and is about 15 years old. He's just as new to being a 'high lord' as Gendry, plus he's younger, disabled and just plain weird.

2. He doesn't abdicate anything by bending the knee, especially when that queen dies. Jon represented house Stark and bent the knee, but that doesn't mean the Starks abdicated anything. Cersei, for example, had zero claim on the throne as she was never in the line of succession, but that didn't stop her from being named Queen. The Starks and the Greyjoys allied with the Targaryens in taking down the Lannister on the throne, but once the head Targaryen has died, there's nothing to stop anyone from deciding whether or not to put a Baratheon back on the throne. Considering Robert's reign was relatively peaceful, both the lords and the people would welcome his son, bastard or not.

3. Bran is the Three Eyed Raven who can't be lord of anything. The key to being a good King, as proven in the final episode, is who the King surrounds himself with. Bran pretty much made it clear that he's not really going to run anything and he's leaving it to the small council.

With the way they left things at the end, just about anyone could have been named King since it was no longer being decided by succession or blood but by who the people and the lords would accept. Gendry would be more accepted by the people as a Baratheon, and just as able to rule (probably moreso since he'll probably spend more time in the here-and-now than Bran ) Keep the same small council, add Bran as his Master of Whispers and long live Gendry the Smith, first of his name, leader of the six kingdoms, etc.

Overall, I think Westeros was left in about as good a situation as you're gong to get.

Bran is young and obviously has no experience ruling... but in the least he's a good human being as far as we can tell. That along puts him ahead of the majority of rulers Westeros had had in recent years. He's got a good set of advisors who are likewise mostly good capable people, and he seems willing to allow his advisors to run things, at least for now.

Add to the fact that his 3 eyes raven abilities should allow him to get ahead of a lot of problems, and I think you've got a pretty good combination overall. HIs short comings are compensated for by his council, and the advantages Bran might have can't really be matched by anyone else. So as a ruler he's got a relatively high floor and an infinately high ceiling.

[AndrewCrossett]

At the time Gendry was legitimized and made Lord Baratheon, he (and all the other people now in power) recognized Daenerys as the legitimate Queen of the Seven Kingdoms. Then she died without an heir... technically Jon was her heir, but he has taken the black and so can't inherit a title of nobility. But just because Dany went crazy and got shivved doesn't mean that her legitimacy as queen has been retroactively withdrawn. Gendry's legitimacy and title are still in force, and he is the Baratheon heir. Weirdly enough, he is the legitimate heir to Tommen and, in the absence of any Targaryen candidate for the throne, the restoration of the Baratheon dynasty would make sense.

I think Gendry, assuming he chose the right advisors, would be a very popular king with the people (being one of them) and he's been around lords long enough to be at least acceptable to them. Would have been even better if Arya had agreed to marry him, but you can't have everything.

It's only headcanon on my part, but I don't think Bran intends to be king for the rest of his life... which may be millennia long. I think he'll stick around long enough to see things put to rights, untangle as many political problems as he can, put the country on the right course, and then abdicate. They will build the Tower of the Raven for him somewhere in a pleasant part of the Reach or the Westerlands, with an honor guard, and he will spend his time warging and visioning and sending intelligence back to King's Landing and receiving the occasional petitioner. Then Gendry, who will have several more years of getting used to being a lord, will be elected the new king.

[XPac]

At the time Gendry was legitimized and made Lord Baratheon, he (and all the other people now in power) recognized Daenerys as the legitimate Queen of the Seven Kingdoms. Then she died without an heir... technically Jon was her heir, but he has taken the black and so can't inherit a title of nobility. But just because Dany went crazy and got shivved doesn't mean that her legitimacy as queen has been retroactively withdrawn. Gendry's legitimacy and title are still in force, and he is the Baratheon heir. Weirdly enough, he is the legitimate heir to Tommen and, in the absence of any Targaryen candidate for the throne, the restoration of the Baratheon dynasty would make sense.

I think Gendry, assuming he chose the right advisors, would be a very popular king with the people (being one of them) and he's been around lords long enough to be at least acceptable to them. Would have been even better if Arya had agreed to marry him, but you can't have everything.

It's only headcanon on my part, but I don't think Bran intends to be king for the rest of his life... which may be millennia long. I think he'll stick around long enough to see things put to rights, untangle as many political problems as he can, put the country on the right course, and then abdicate. They will build the Tower of the Raven for him somewhere in a pleasant part of the Reach or the Westerlands, with an honor guard, and he will spend his time warging and visioning and sending intelligence back to King's Landing and receiving the occasional petitioner. Then Gendry, who will have several more years of getting used to being a lord, will be elected the new king.

My head canon is still that Jon will somehow someway eventually be king. If/when this period of GoT is ever revisited, I think Jons heritage will be brought up again and he'll somehow swoop in to save the day riding Drogan and end up somehow someway on the Iron Throne. He's taken the black so I'm not entirely sure how that would work, but I still can't shake the feeling that this chapter of GoT will never have true closure until the rightful heir somehow becomes king. I think Bran is sort of a place holder for that to happen.

But obviously that's all fan fiction in my head at this point.

[Punisher007]

Gendry is apparently still "Gendry Baratheon, Lord of Storm's End" even after Dany's death judging by the meeting, so his being a bastard is apparently no longer relevant. Also he's the son of Robert (and the last time that Westeros knew any kind of sustained peace was under his reign and he was quite popular with the common folk), and a Targ descendant (as the Baratheon's are related to them), AND was raised amongst the commoners (thus perhaps gaining their support), AND who fought bravely against the White Walkers and has the respect of the Stark's, etc. Yeah he seems like a more logical choice than the robot with the vague powers that no one seems to fully understand who's done nothing of value for a long time now.