Game of Thrones

[bobellis75]

Seeing the Dany talk here....

I think Dany is going to be a lot to deal with...and maybe the ultimate battle will be against her. I think she could potentially go "mad" like her father. They are laying a lot of groundwork with people pointing out she's heartless and so on...

I think what COULD happen is not that she would do something directly to Jon...but she could maybe do something heartless to someone Jon loves. Or just make a god awful decision about something that Jon can't get behind...and there will be conflict.

[stargazer01]

Call me crazy... but I don't see Dany as the bad guy here. I think she's a good person, but sometimes in war you have to be tough. She was also raised to think she deserves the Iron throne. But I truly believe Jon has had a big impact in her. And she respects him. This aspect will be important. I can't see her giving him her back. We'll see.

[stargazer01]

Dany should destroy the Iron Throne and the Iron Bank, build her own society with Jon.

This. build a new society based on a democracy for and by the people.

[ZeroBG82]

Dany needs to be respected if she is going to maintain power. I don't think it's "childish". If she lets people just dismiss her, she will not hold power long.

Her goal is to become queen and to break the wheel, it's still her goal. She has an ego, sure, but you kind of have to in that position.

Sansa is in the same position. She needs to be seen as strong to maintain her leadership of the North.

There's an incredibly important distinction between respect and fear.

But for all her talk of breaking the wheel, Dany's new world still requires her at the top. She has a vision for her rule, it's true. But it's still HER RULE. She isn't doing any of what we're seeing because she cares for people and because she wants to make their lives better. It's because she believes power is hers by right, and she's going to have it. Dany is fighting to claim power for power's own sake. In this, she is literally no different from Cersei.

We know Dany understands the responsibility and obligation that comes with power in a way Cersei never will. That she could be a benevelont despot. But a despot all the same. When holding power is the goal, you do what you have to to secure it, keep it.

It's why they keep drawing the comparison with Jon. Jon keeps being given all the power. Lord Commander of the Night's Watch. King in the North. But he doesn't seek any of it. And thus he wields that power, not in his own name because he thinks he should, but in the name of the people that gave it to him. He tries to do right by the people that have placed this trust in him first and foremost. To the point of surrendering his crown willingly if it can save them from harm.

Sam's question is the crux of the whole damn problem. Would Dany do the same? We all know she wouldn't. Couldn't. She's been the most benevolent option for so long that we're conditioned to think of her as a good ruler. But she still seeks only to rule.

[bobellis75]

There's an incredibly important distinction between respect and fear.

This is what I'm getting at...she's a little power happy. Jon has gained respect. Dany has gained some respect...but many fear her. Sam said it best when he told Jon about his heritage and right to the throne. Jon said "she's the queen" and Sam said "she shouldn't be." Sam didn't mean this in the birthright way...he meant she wasn't a a "queen-like" person. Not a good ruler. Now...of course Sam just found out she killed his family. However...I'd say Sam is the viewers avatar in this show. Part of his existence is to be "us" in the show. To point out things and to have feelings that they want the viewer to have. Point being...if Sam is leery of her...the show is telling us to feel the same. My two cents.

[bobellis75]

This is what I'm getting at...she's a little power happy. Jon has gained respect. Dany has gained some respect...but many fear her. Sam said it best when he told Jon about his heritage and right to the throne. Jon said "she's the queen" and Sam said "she shouldn't be." Sam didn't mean this in the birthright way...he meant she wasn't a a "queen-like" person. Not a good ruler. Now...of course Sam just found out she killed his family. However...I'd say Sam is the viewers avatar in this show. Part of his existence is to be "us" in the show. To point out things and to have feelings that they want the viewer to have. Point being...if Sam is leery of her...the show is telling us to feel the same. My two cents.

Just to add to this...think back to last year when she burned the Lannister army. Even Tyrion at that point was kind of like WTF? He was shaken. In episode one this year...we see Sansa not warmly accepting her, Arya backing her up, Sam doesnt like her (even Jorrah of all people clearly felt like "Oh no...what did you do").

I think there is enough build up here that either she's going to have really change her ways...or they are prepping for her to just have a "I don't give a damn" attitude and burn anyone who gets in her way.

Again...that's not respect. That's threatening people with dragons which equals fear. And that's the type of ruler that gets overthrown, eventually.

[stargazer01]

Sam doesn't know Dany the way Tyrion, Jon and those close to her do. Dany is not very humble.. she was raised as royalty, but she is not the bad guy. I don't think so. If the show turn her bad, it's bad storytelling to me. Dany has done lots of good things too, and she did it because she didn't want people to suffer the way she did.

[MiddleMan]

This. build a new society based on a democracy for and by the people.

Settle down, comrade

[Starrius]

I think Dany had a right to be taken aback by what Sansa said. Not that I entirely fault Sansa either... but from Danys perspective Jon was the King of the North and he already pledged the North to Dany if she aided them against the Walkers. Dany made good on her end, and now it's starting to sound like the North might not on their end. And that's especially compounded by the fact that it's lead by the family of the person she loves. It's far easier to deal with Cersi going back on her word, because killing Cersi and the people of Kings Landing isn't personal. Dany is TRYING to win over Sansa and the north so it won't come to that. But if Sansa's words are accurate, then when the Walkers threat is done things will get very ugly.

Good points

She lost one of her 3 dragons trying to save him.

[Starrius]

Sam doesn't know Dany the way Tyrion, Jon and those close to her do. Dany is not very humble.. she was raised as royalty, but she is not the bad guy. I don't think so. If the show turn her bad, it's bad storytelling to me. Dany has done lots of good things too, and she did it because she didn't want people to suffer the way she did.

I totally agree

just because her father was the Mad King doesn't mean that she has to be the Mad Queen

a person doesn't have to be like his/her parents(s)

[Starrius]

I think Dany had a right to be taken aback by what Sansa said. Not that I entirely fault Sansa either... but from Danys perspective Jon was the King of the North and he already pledged the North to Dany if she aided them against the Walkers. Dany made good on her end, and now it's starting to sound like the North might not on their end. And that's especially compounded by the fact that it's lead by the family of the person she loves. It's far easier to deal with Cersi going back on her word, because killing Cersi and the people of Kings Landing isn't personal. Dany is TRYING to win over Sansa and the north so it won't come to that. But if Sansa's words are accurate, then when the Walkers threat is done things will get very ugly.

Good points

She lost one of her 3 dragons trying to save him.

I am not going to make any judgments and assumptions.

I am just going to just wait and see.

[XPac]

Dany and her "it's my way or the highway attitude" was fine when it was directed at despots and slavers and such

Now it's being thrown at characters we like, nothings changed, she has dedicated her existence to reclaiming her "birthright"

And now Jon is in the way of that

Again though, in the case of the North it was already a done deal. Jon was King of the North, and he bent the knee. It's not JUST birth right ... in exchange for her help, which Dany provided, the North falls in line. If the North goes back on that agreement, I think Dany would have a legitimate gripe.

[XPac]

Call me crazy... but I don't see Dany as the bad guy here. I think she's a good person, but sometimes in war you have to be tough. She was also raised to think she deserves the Iron throne. But I truly believe Jon has had a big impact in her. And she respects him. This aspect will be important. I can't see her giving him her back. We'll see.

Though Dany turning evil would certainly be a twist, I'm not sure there's enough room left in the season to add a third bad guy in addition to the Night King and Cersi.

But we'll see. I wouldn't entirely be out of left field, but I have trouble seeing it.

[Star_Jammer]

Again though, in the case of the North it was already a done deal. Jon was King of the North, and he bent the knee. It's not JUST birth right ... in exchange for her help, which Dany provided, the North falls in line. If the North goes back on that agreement, I think Dany would have a legitimate gripe.

Dany only helping out if the North “bends the knee” first is the problem, from my perspective, instead of uniting for the greater good.

Apparently, she’d have been fine watching the North get destroyed and then try to deal with the White Walker issue herself.

And isn’t that what Cersei is doing?

[Elegant Dreamer]

We haven't seen young Norman Bates . . . I mean . . . Robin Arryn in a while.