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Thread: Game of Thrones

  1. #7171
    older Mormel's Avatar
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    He's more Jack Parow than Jack Sparrow tbqh.
    Take my dreams, childish and weak at the seams
    Please don't analyze, please just be there for me

  2. #7172
    Fantastic Member TriggerWarning's Avatar
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    Bit late to the discussion but I see nothing wrong with Dany's heel turn except it felt rushed. It was absolutely foreshadowed and utterly something that was being built toward since season one. She's always had a vicious streak, especially when she's made angry or felt betrayed, and its been her advisors keeping her in check. But now she's lost all her main advisors and feels betrayed by the rest. Reverting to her burn em all or kill em all character feels natural.

    I think too many just saw her as this heroic female (yay female power) and wanted her to win when the true heroic female of the series is Arya.

    On the one hand I do wish the show had done a full season to give the heel turn more time to develop but on the other I also kind of am coming round to the idea that maybe its best they didn't give it more time because then it wouldn't have been shocking. The reason the Red Wedding worked so well dramatically is because we didn't see the scenes of Tywin, Walder Frey, and Roose Bolton plotting. It would have lost its dramatic effect if we knew it was coming.
    Last edited by TriggerWarning; 05-17-2019 at 08:13 AM.

  3. #7173
    Invincible Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TriggerWarning View Post
    Bit late to the discussion but I see nothing wrong with Dany's heel turn except it felt rushed. It was absolutely foreshadowed and utterly something that was being built toward since season one. She's always had a vicious streak, especially when she's made or felt betrayed, and its been her advisors keeping her in check. But now she's lost all her main advisors and feels betrayed by the rest. Reverting to her burn em all or kill em all character feels natural.

    I think too many just saw her as this heroic female (yay female power) and wanted her to win when the true heroic female of the series is Arya.
    Though I agree with you that her heel turn was foreshadowed and built towards, in the same breath I do buy her being seen as a heroic female. She did free and save a lot of people. It could have gone either way, and I don't think anyone could justifiably argue that it was completely out of nowhere. But in the end it just so happens the story of Dany was more the journey of a villain rather then a journey of a hero.

    Spider-Man or Things origin story could EASILY have been the orign of a villain. Dr. Doom could have easily been the tale of a tragic hero. Danys sort of the same thing. It's a tragic tale which works for building her up ultimately as a hero or villain. She hit a fork and made her call. If this weren't the last episode I could totally buy that she could be redeemable down the line. Problem is there's no down the line. This is it.

  4. #7174
    Fantastic Member TriggerWarning's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    Though I agree with you that her heel turn was foreshadowed and built towards, in the same breath I do buy her being seen as a heroic female. She did free and save a lot of people. It could have gone either way, and I don't think anyone could justifiably argue that it was completely out of nowhere. But in the end it just so happens the story of Dany was more the journey of a villain rather then a journey of a hero.
    But she wasn't freeing and saving people out of the goodness of her heart. It was always a means to power for her. She freed the Unsullied because she knew it would make them fight harder for her, not because it was the right thing to do. She freed the slaves in Mereen as a means of causing unrest in the city so she could overtake it. Everything she's ever done has been a means to end in her desire for power that she thinks she's owed. She's actually just like Viserys was in her feeling she's owed power only she's smarter than he was and understands manipulation better than he did.

  5. #7175
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    Quote Originally Posted by TriggerWarning View Post
    But she wasn't freeing and saving people out of the goodness of her heart. It was always a means to power for her. She freed the Unsullied because she knew it would make them fight harder for her, not because it was the right thing to do. She freed the slaves in Mereen as a means of causing unrest in the city so she could overtake it. Everything she's ever done has been a means to end in her desire for power that she thinks she's owed. She's actually just like Viserys was in her feeling she's owed power only she's smarter than he was and understands manipulation better than he did.
    That's all speculation though, we don't see any of her inner monologues. Hell she was upset when Drogon barbequed a lil girl, or when she saw those kids crucified.

  6. #7176
    Astonishing Member AndrewCrossett's Avatar
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    They could have made this a much better episode if they'd given a little more thought and time to the moment when Dany made the decision to go ahead and torch the city. All we got was her staring at the Red Keep, then bursting into tears and flaming on. That didn't give us much insight into what was arguably THE main turning point of the entire story. The trouble was that there was nobody for her to talk to up there except Drogon.

  7. #7177
    Invincible Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndrewCrossett View Post
    They could have made this a much better episode if they'd given a little more thought and time to the moment when Dany made the decision to go ahead and torch the city. All we got was her staring at the Red Keep, then bursting into tears and flaming on. That didn't give us much insight into what was arguably THE main turning point of the entire story. The trouble was that there was nobody for her to talk to up there except Drogon.
    Honestly I thought Danys motivation was pretty much the same as Grey Worms for chicking the spear at the Lannister soldiers who surrendered. They were mad and in pain from their personal loss, and wanted revenge when the opportunity was there. I think it was that simple. If there was more time to process everything, it's entirely possible she might not have done it.

    It's easy for viewers at home to calmly conclude that she was doing the wrong thing, and it WAS the wrong thing. But if you're a person in pain from dealing with the loss of loved ones you definately might be more inclined to say F' it and let them burn. Not that it would be right, but it's sort of understandable.

  8. #7178
    Fantastic Member TriggerWarning's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madam-Shogun-Assassin View Post
    That's all speculation though, we don't see any of her inner monologues. Hell she was upset when Drogon barbequed a lil girl, or when she saw those kids crucified.
    But we see many of her spoken monlogues and they absolutely fit her real motivations which is power and revenge. I just saw that CBR actually just posted an article about this so I'll just link it and pull some quotes.

    https://www.cbr.com/game-of-thrones-...turn-foretold/

    In season 2 she said this:

    "When my dragons are grown, we will take back what was stolen from me and destroy those who wronged me. We will lay waste to armies and burn cities to the ground."

    Who had wronged her in Westeros? No one really. She was a baby. Her older brother Rhaegar got wronged for sure Maybe you could say her father, the Mad King, got wronged by Jamie but I think most can agree Jamie did the right thing even if it meant breaking his vows. She felt entitled and felt that all of Westeros owed her. You could argue that Robert Baratheon had wronged her by sending assassins but he was long dead as were his heirs so why punish others for him?

    She also had the impulse to kill everyone who she felt had betrayed her many times in the following seasons, and occasionally did kill them. Only her advisors kept her in check. But as they went away there was no one left to check her mad impulses.

    Her actions were her true nature that she expressed many times in the series when she felt wronged, felt she wasn't getting what was owed her, or felt betrayed. She is basically exactly like Viserys only she was better at hiding her anger and temper than he was.
    Last edited by TriggerWarning; 05-17-2019 at 09:41 AM.

  9. #7179
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    Quote Originally Posted by TriggerWarning View Post
    But we see many of her spoken monlogues and they absolutely fit her real motivations which is power and revenge. I just saw that CBR actually just posted an article about this so I'll just link it and pull some quotes.

    https://www.cbr.com/game-of-thrones-...turn-foretold/

    In season 2 she said this:

    "When my dragons are grown, we will take back what was stolen from me and destroy those who wronged me. We will lay waste to armies and burn cities to the ground."

    Who had wronged her in Westeros? No one really. She was a baby. Her older brother Rhaegar got wronged for sure Maybe you could say her father, the Mad King, got wronged by Jamie but I think most can agree Jamie did the right thing even if it meant breaking his vows. She felt entitled and felt that all of Westeros owed her. You could argue that Robert Baratheon had wronged her by sending assassins but he was long dead as were his heirs so why punish others for him?

    She also had the impulse to kill everyone who she felt had betrayed her many times in the following seasons, and occasionally did kill them. Only her advisors kept her in check. But as they went away there was no one left to check her mad impulses.

    Her actions were her true nature that she expressed many times in the series when she felt wronged, felt she wasn't getting what was owed her, or felt betrayed. She is basically exactly like Viserys only she was better at hiding her anger and temper than he was.
    That's still don't paint a whole picture though.

  10. #7180
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    Quote Originally Posted by TriggerWarning View Post
    I think too many just saw her as this heroic female (yay female power) and wanted her to win when the true heroic female of the series is Arya.
    Arya the murderous assassin motivated solely by revenge?

  11. #7181
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    Gonan be hilarious how bad this ending will be hated

    GRRM ain't ever finishing that last book knowing people hate how it ends anyway lol.

    The spoiler ending makes. no. sense. It doesn't matter how good the charcters would be written if it makes. no. sense. how they end up where they do lol.
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  12. #7182
    Invincible Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Greatest_Username View Post
    Arya the murderous assassin motivated solely by revenge?
    You can certainly argue Arya is no role model herself, but she does kill bad guys. Dany crosses a line Arya doesn't when she murders innocent women and children. There's a big difference. Legality and morality aside, you can at least argue the people Arya killed deserved it. Danys victims not so much.

  13. #7183
    Astonishing Member The_Greatest_Username's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    You can certainly argue Arya is no role model herself, but she does kill bad guys. Dany crosses a line Arya doesn't when she murders innocent women and children. There's a big difference. Legality and morality aside, you can at least argue the people Arya killed deserved it. Danys victims not so much.
    Oh, I agree; however, up until recently Dany only killed “bad guys”, but you still have fans claiming it’s just her madness.

  14. #7184
    Invincible Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post
    Gonan be hilarious how bad this ending will be hated

    GRRM ain't ever finishing that last book knowing people hate how it ends anyway lol.

    The spoiler ending makes. no. sense. It doesn't matter how good the charcters would be written if it makes. no. sense. how they end up where they do lol.
    At this point I'm keeping my expectations in check to the point where as long as Jon and Ghost don't die (the later being pretty darn unlikely but ya never know with this show), I'll be at peace with it. I've given up hopes of having a GREAT epic ending... I'll just seattle for my favorite character and his dog not dying and calling it a day.

  15. #7185
    Mighty Member stargazer01's Avatar
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    I'm pretty sure I'm going to hate the finale. This season is so disappointing in many ways. They can kill just about everyone and I don't care anymore.

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