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Thread: Game of Thrones

  1. #7726
    The Forever Walker remydat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    Not saying collateral damange is a war crime. Again, just disagreeing with the notion that she could kill Cersi without harming innocent people. Not on a dragon.

    But certainly I would agree what we saw was more than collateral damage. If Dany actually cared about civilan lives at this point she obviously would have handled things differently. But that's why she's called the Mad Queen rather than the Nice Queen.
    Dany is not real. She didnt care because the writers altered 7 years of characterization in a bullshit way.
    Last edited by remydat; 05-21-2019 at 12:02 PM.
    It's hard for me to listen to someone not in my position. A caterpillar can't relate to what an eagle envisions.

  2. #7727
    Astonishing Member Jackalope89's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by remydat View Post
    Dany is not real. She didnt care because the writers altered 7 years of characterization in a bullshit way.
    Not really. I seem to recall Dany threatening the city of Qarth (or whatever), by burning it to the ground, simply because they didn't want to let in a bunch of Dothraki (small in number or not). And that was season 2.

  3. #7728
    Invincible Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by remydat View Post
    Dany is not real. She didnt care because the writers altered 7 years of characterization in a bullshit way.
    Again, it's easier for me to buy the arguement that it's not in her characterization if she didn't threaten to do exactly what she did multiple times in the last 7 years.

    If it were say Jon who ended up murdering hundreds of innocent women and children sure, I'd say that's out of character. But frankly I've seen discussions about Dany doing this for YEARS. So the foundation for it was there. Not saying I personally knew it would happen or it was inevitable... but it didn't happen in a complete void either.

  4. #7729
    Formerly Blackdragon6 Emperor-of-Dragons's Avatar
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    One cool theory a lot of people who read the spoilers came to..theorized, that essentially the Children of the Forest wanted revenge on mankind for hunting them, and causing them to create the NK, and this is their revenge, having mankind more or less wreck each other and install their agent, the 3-eyed Raven, as their ruler. That would have been cooler than what we got. How many people even remember the COTF? lol
    Last edited by Emperor-of-Dragons; 05-21-2019 at 12:46 PM.

  5. #7730
    Formerly Blackdragon6 Emperor-of-Dragons's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starter Set View Post
    Let's hope Martin also has something better in store for the Night King than the sad farce we had the misfortune to witness.

    Of course the dude has to die, by Arya's hand why not, that's not really the issue. But damn...
    My feeling as well tbh.

  6. #7731
    Formerly Blackdragon6 Emperor-of-Dragons's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    If the question is WHY didn't she fly to the Red Keep, the simple answer is she decided to kill all the civilians too.

    She came to the conclusion, right or wrong, that she wasn't a liberator of the people of KL because they were seeking protection with Cersi FROM her. From her warped perspective (again, Mad Queen), they didn't want saving from Cersi, therefore there was no reason to bother saving them. So they shared Cersi and the Lanisters army fate.

    If you're looking for a competely rational logical reason for why she did what she did, don't bother... there isn't one. At least not entirely. Again, that's sort of the point of her snapping. She wasn't doing the right thing for the right reason, and we're not supposed to think she was. We're supposed to think she freaking went nuts.
    To be honest the civilians was dumb, who goes to the beach on D-Day?

  7. #7732
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    The difficulty with Daenerys Stormborn is that she always spoke in aphorisms. Her compact expressions seemed right, but no one really challenged her to unpack their meaning. She could always give some pithy label to what she was doing that had a nice ring to it. But she never had to confront the deeper philosophical questions behind those words. She really needed a Socrates (and one who had no fear of being executed) to push her to examine her unexamined life. Alexander the Great had his Aristotle, who did she have to educate her on the deeper existential questions?

  8. #7733
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    Quote Originally Posted by Punisher007 View Post
    Both of those are irrelevant to the show's problems. The show set this up and the show failed to pay it off.
    They did.

    1. Jon was one of the first to discover the White Walker threat in the NW.
    2. Jon aided and allowed the Wildlings to live at Castle Black to save them.
    3. Jonís friend showed him dragonglass can kill White Walkers
    4. Jon discovered Valyrian Steel could
    5. Jon took back Winterfell and united the North to prepare to defend the real from the White Walkers
    6. Jon went to Dragonstone and mined dragonglass to use as weapons.
    7. Jon recruited Dany to the cause which brought over the bulk of the army
    8. Jon and his team prepared all the mechanisms and defenses so Winterfell wouldnít get thrashed in seconds
    9. Jon knocker the Night King from his dragon making him more vulnerable

    Without Jon they 100% donít win. Literally any soldier could have gotten the jump on the Night King under the right circumstances. It happened to be the best assassin in the story. Without Jon the there is no battle at Winterfell. The dead roll through the North. Without Jon nobody is armed properly and they all die immediately because they canít kill anyone. Without Jon the Night King stays on a dragon and just burns Bran and then never exposes himself again. Without Jon there is no Winterfell for Arya to go back to.

    It was one of Jonís soldiers, in Jonís war, who didnít immediately get swarmed by eights because of Jonís prep, who knew how to be properly armed because of Jon, who got a chance to strike down a character Jon knocked to the ground, that killed the Night King

    But I guess it doesnít matter because we didnít get a cheesy sword fight that made no sense because Jon should lose it and only a properly trained super assassin should even have a chance at

  9. #7734
    Invincible Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emperor-of-Dragons View Post
    To be honest the civilians was dumb, who goes to the beach on D-Day?
    It sort of depends on what sort of threat you're dealing with. Up in the North, the people all took refuge at Winter Fell even though that was the Night Kings ultimate target. They were dealing with a merciless bad guy who was going to kill anyone in his way.

    If Kings Landing was say being invaded by the people of the North, the might not take refuge in KL because I suspect they would just assume the Northerners would leave them along and focus on Cersi. But a Dragon and an army of Dothraki might not be as considerate, so it depends. They didn't know Dany well enough to know for sure one way or the other, so I suppose they can't entirely be faulted either way. But in hindsight yeah... KL is definately not the place you wanna be.

  10. #7735
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emperor-of-Dragons View Post
    My feeling as well tbh.
    Martin is writing the second to last book and the Night King doesn’t exist and is a show only creation to add a personal face to the Others.

    Don’t be surprised if it’s just a big battle that the heroes win and there is no big one on one fight at the end. That’s not GRRM’s style

  11. #7736
    Invincible Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    The difficulty with Daenerys Stormborn is that she always spoke in aphorisms. Her compact expressions seemed right, but no one really challenged her to unpack their meaning. She could always give some pithy label to what she was doing that had a nice ring to it. But she never had to confront the deeper philosophical questions behind those words. She really needed a Socrates (and one who had no fear of being executed) to push her to examine her unexamined life. Alexander the Great had his Aristotle, who did she have to educate her on the deeper existential questions?
    She's like a modern day politician in that regard... she speaks in sound bites. Short digestible statements that sound cool, but don't necessarily mean a whole lot.

    The last episode might be the first time she elaborated on what she had in mind in any real depth... not that she was super specific even then, but you get a greater understanding of what she had in mind. And the more you hear, the scarier she sounds.

    It does sort of reflect poorly on Tyrion and Vary that they backed a horse they really didn't understand as well as they should have before they went all in.

  12. #7737
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    Quote Originally Posted by KNIGHT OF THE LAKE View Post
    They did.

    1. Jon was one of the first to discover the White Walker threat in the NW.
    2. Jon aided and allowed the Wildlings to live at Castle Black to save them.
    3. Jonís friend showed him dragonglass can kill White Walkers
    4. Jon discovered Valyrian Steel could
    5. Jon took back Winterfell and united the North to prepare to defend the real from the White Walkers
    6. Jon went to Dragonstone and mined dragonglass to use as weapons.
    7. Jon recruited Dany to the cause which brought over the bulk of the army
    8. Jon and his team prepared all the mechanisms and defenses so Winterfell wouldnít get thrashed in seconds
    9. Jon knocker the Night King from his dragon making him more vulnerable

    Without Jon they 100% donít win. Literally any soldier could have gotten the jump on the Night King under the right circumstances. It happened to be the best assassin in the story. Without Jon the there is no battle at Winterfell. The dead roll through the North. Without Jon nobody is armed properly and they all die immediately because they canít kill anyone. Without Jon the Night King stays on a dragon and just burns Bran and then never exposes himself again. Without Jon there is no Winterfell for Arya to go back to.

    It was one of Jonís soldiers, in Jonís war, who didnít immediately get swarmed by eights because of Jonís prep, who knew how to be properly armed because of Jon, who got a chance to strike down a character Jon knocked to the ground, that killed the Night King

    But I guess it doesnít matter because we didnít get a cheesy sword fight that made no sense because Jon should lose it and only a properly trained super assassin should even have a chance at
    Exactly that. There's no entitlement in GOT and Jon more than did his par!t He even came back to life to make sure Westeros was protected. But looks like it wasn't enough for some fans, they feel robbed of their "end" and they think that it's fair sport to attack the show the way they do.
    Last edited by mogwen; 05-21-2019 at 01:22 PM.

  13. #7738
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    She's like a modern day politician in that regard... she speaks in sound bites. Short digestible statements that sound cool, but don't necessarily mean a whole lot.

    The last episode might be the first time she elaborated on what she had in mind in any real depth... not that she was super specific even then, but you get a greater understanding of what she had in mind. And the more you hear, the scarier she sounds.

    It does sort of reflect poorly on Tyrion and Vary that they backed a horse they really didn't understand as well as they should have before they went all in.
    Another advantage the books have is they kinda show how Dany is actually very ignorant. She’s never been to the Seven Kingdoms. She thinks of Ned Stark and Robert Baratheon as evil men. She thinks she’s entitled to rule it. She thinks the people there actually give a shit if she comes back and runs it as opposed to the few who are just enlisting her to serve their own revenge plots. She’s a teenage girl with a messiah/savior complex rambling about being the rightful ruler of place that she’s never been that kicked her and her family out.

  14. #7739
    Invincible Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KNIGHT OF THE LAKE View Post
    They did.

    1. Jon was one of the first to discover the White Walker threat in the NW.
    2. Jon aided and allowed the Wildlings to live at Castle Black to save them.
    3. Jon’s friend showed him dragonglass can kill White Walkers
    4. Jon discovered Valyrian Steel could
    5. Jon took back Winterfell and united the North to prepare to defend the real from the White Walkers
    6. Jon went to Dragonstone and mined dragonglass to use as weapons.
    7. Jon recruited Dany to the cause which brought over the bulk of the army
    8. Jon and his team prepared all the mechanisms and defenses so Winterfell wouldn’t get thrashed in seconds
    9. Jon knocker the Night King from his dragon making him more vulnerable

    Without Jon they 100% don’t win. Literally any soldier could have gotten the jump on the Night King under the right circumstances. It happened to be the best assassin in the story. Without Jon the there is no battle at Winterfell. The dead roll through the North. Without Jon nobody is armed properly and they all die immediately because they can’t kill anyone. Without Jon the Night King stays on a dragon and just burns Bran and then never exposes himself again. Without Jon there is no Winterfell for Arya to go back to.

    It was one of Jon’s soldiers, in Jon’s war, who didn’t immediately get swarmed by eights because of Jon’s prep, who knew how to be properly armed because of Jon, who got a chance to strike down a character Jon knocked to the ground, that killed the Night King

    But I guess it doesn’t matter because we didn’t get a cheesy sword fight that made no sense because Jon should lose it and only a properly trained super assassin should even have a chance at
    Yeah, I'm sort of disappointed that Jon isn't getting the credit he deserves for all he accomplished in this show. Not to take anything away from Arya, but really Jon was the guy that made everything possible. If not for him no one south of the Wall would even know about the Night King until he 2 seconds before he was about to kill them. Literally no one could do what he did, as far as uniting the living against the dead. Not Dany, not Ary, not anyone...

    Not that I don't wish Jon didn't have a few cooler moments in the last season too, but Jon should still get far more credit than he does from a lot of the fan base.

  15. #7740
    Invincible Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KNIGHT OF THE LAKE View Post
    Another advantage the books have is they kinda show how Dany is actually very ignorant. She’s never been to the Seven Kingdoms. She thinks of Ned Stark and Robert Baratheon as evil men. She thinks she’s entitled to rule it. She thinks the people there actually give a shit if she comes back and runs it as opposed to the few who are just enlisting her to serve their own revenge plots. She’s a teenage girl with a messiah/savior complex rambling about being the rightful ruler of place that she’s never been that kicked her and her family out.
    I think you do sort of get that in the show too... it's just overshadowed at times by how cool she is.

    I suppose to some degree you almost can't fault her for having a messiah complex given up to a point everywhere she went ended up with her being treated as both a savior and queen. It's when she goes up North where you begin to see that she doesn't quite cope well with situations that don't quite go the way she wants them to.

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