Game of Thrones

[lancerman]

I agree. Even if Sansa doesn't play a huge role in the books (I think she will), I think she is one of the main group in the show for sure.

Basically everyone who was a POV character in the first book (minus Eddard and Catelyn who were relics of an older age who needed to get gutted) are all on trajectory to be the main heroes of the show/books. Stannis and Robb were misdirection that people got behind because they were fighting the evil the Lannisters and people wanted to see the bad guys get theirs.

[abulafia]

This is where it differs for me because had Stannis actually outmanoeuvred Renly in battle then fair play. But Stannis won using magic rather than fight because he knew he would lose. It's like bringing a vile of plague to a gun fight. I just think had Stannis had been in anyway involved then he'd at least have more respect, but letting Mel decimate his enemies for him was weak.

Also the Loras convincing him is show only, book Renly wants to rule not because Loras said so.

Renly was not being played, it's an alliance.

this reminds me of the discussion the small council had over killing rhago and dani. killing a single person which prevents a terrible war. so from a certain point of view, what stannis did, was just.

the whole story is much about power. (see dialog varys/tyrion)
can it be held when challenged? rightful heirs... visery/theon... look how that ended.

i always thought renly was the modern voice in his definition of justice. blood entitles you to nothing, if a law is bad it must be broken.
in the battle for power, the blood claim is just one of many chips in a gamble

oh and the bank always wins
mace got that right

[robreedwrites]

Yes. The show is many ways a big lesson in the lesser of the evils. I think as far as individuals, the show works off the idea that no one is an angel...we all have faults and selfishnesses and apathies about us. Some of us have bad pasts. But life and people are always changing and fluid some, and some change more than others, for better or for worse.

I'm starting to wonder if the White Walkers win. Because while I didn't like the show's execution of Shireen's death (no pun intended), I agree with you about the themes of the books/show. In many ways, it's about choosing the lesser of two evils, and if you don't you lose. But narratively, in terms of a satisfying conclusion, I'm starting to wonder if everyone ultimately fails that and the White Walkers take back Westeros (kind of a Fortenbras type thing from Hamlet). Dany is focused on the Iron Throne (though to be fair, she doesn't know about the WWs to my knowledge), Arya is still focused on revenge, Sansa is focused on being alive. Thus far, the only people that seem to be focused on the bigger threat are Jon, the Night's Watch and Bran, and from a military standpoint, they shouldn't be enough.

[JaggedFel]

If anything this is great for the White Walkers, the Seven Kingdoms keep slaughtering each other at the current rate no one will be left to fight.

[JBatmanFan05]

I'm starting to wonder if the White Walkers win.

No, I myself doubt they will. But I don't think the show will try to much convince you that human victory is for the best, that all depends on perspective (Nekron's motive in BNight was not so bad...no evil in the universe). I think the Ice (WW) and Fire (Lord of Light) will just be two equally questionable forces. The only difference being that we continue to live under the fire and not the ice's goals. And because most humans would rather live, all things considered, our evils will live on some too.

[sneakyflute]

When will Stannis realize Melisandre is a false prophet?

[JBatmanFan05]

When will Stannis realize Melisandre is a false prophet?

When Renly strolls in and is like "What? No, I didn't die. It's on dear brother!"?

[Nyssane]

Says a guy cheering for Jamie. Let's not forget who Jamie is.

Outside of Jon Snow and Tyrion, I'm not sure anyone in this show is actually good. Even Tyrion isn't the best human being.

What has Brienne or the Tyrells ever done?

[byc]

Great episode even with only 1 child killed.

[Francisco]

It's me or a the Unsullied really crappy at fighting as a unit? What is so hard about standing shoulder to shoulder shield on front and sticking your spear in anyone who stands before you?

[robreedwrites]

It's me or a the Unsullied really crappy at fighting as a unit? What is so hard about standing shoulder to shoulder shield on front and sticking your spear in anyone who stands before you?

On one level, I think it's a failing of the show's fight choreographers being able to train the extras due to time. In my VERY limited experience, stage combat with spears and polearms is harder to make look realistic compared to swords and daggers.

But I also think it's supposed to replicate the historical vulnerability of a phalanx to a more guerilla style of warfare.

[Iron Fist]

this reminds me of the discussion the small council had over killing rhago and dani. killing a single person which prevents a terrible war. so from a certain point of view, what stannis did, was just.

the whole story is much about power. (see dialog varys/tyrion)
can it be held when challenged? rightful heirs... visery/theon... look how that ended.

i always thought renly was the modern voice in his definition of justice. blood entitles you to nothing, if a law is bad it must be broken.
in the battle for power, the blood claim is just one of many chips in a gamble

oh and the bank always wins
mace got that right

well if it's about killing a single person to prevent a terrible war then stannis should have killed himself since renly's army would have taken kings landing very quickly long before tywin could rescue them.

[Therion]

I think the Walkers built the wall to keep those stinkin' humans out, but by now they'd had enough so it's payback time

[lancerman]

It's me or a the Unsullied really crappy at fighting as a unit? What is so hard about standing shoulder to shoulder shield on front and sticking your spear in anyone who stands before you?

They are a very outdated force. It's never outright said. But in the books none of the rich cities use Unsullied (despite them being dirt cheap), they lose frequently to well trained sellswords and knights. It also doesn't help that the whole point of them is that they are supposed to be drugged up machines that don't feel pain and have no mind beyond fighting. But Dany doesn't drug them and she humanizes them.

[Sighphi]

It's me or a the Unsullied really crappy at fighting as a unit? What is so hard about standing shoulder to shoulder shield on front and sticking your spear in anyone who stands before you?

There were severely outnumbered. It seem like half the stadium had a mask on. I think almost every death consisted of more than one person attacking one.
Plus, they dont seem to be good at close quarter combat and this battle was very close combat.
Dont really know why they keep running around with a spear. They need something smaller.