Game of Thrones

[stargazer01]

You know what, I think they did not plan to have Ghost in this episode when they shot it. Maybe because they didn't know if they had the budget. I think they just added him in post-production. Because literally no one on-screen acknowledges his presence. And they didn't acknowledge his presence in the previous episode either. Seriously, no one has even mentioned Ghost since the beginning of season 7.

I think you're right, otherwise it makes no sense that nobody even says hi to the poor guy. I think the showrunners saw in social media how much some fans wanted to see Ghost again in S8 and for Dany to meet him like Jon meeting the dragons... but nothing. :I

[TheCape]

You know what, I think they did not plan to have Ghost in this episode when they shot it. Maybe because they didn't know if they had the budget. I think they just added him in post-production. Because literally no one on-screen acknowledges his presence. And they didn't acknowledge his presence in the previous episode either. Seriously, no one has even mentioned Ghost since the beginning of season 7.

That's the twist, he is an actual Ghost now, his spirit is there to keep the moral hight

[Xero Kaiser]

I'm not even mad that Arya killed the NK, but Jon didn't even do some real sh!t. All the build up to him against the NK and then nothing.. No payoff at all. We just got shock value because that's what these showrunners like to do.

Yeah, imagine if Avengers: Endgame ends with Hawkeye materializing out of thin air and sniping Thanos in the back of the head before he actually does anything of note.

Unexpected? Sure.

But who the hell would have been satisfied with that? Years of buildup just to get blueballed because, "i'm sUbVeRtInG ExPeCtAtIoNs".

Ugh...

[stargazer01]

Yeah, imagine if Avengers: Endgame ends with Hawkeye materializing out of thin air and sniping Thanos in the back of the head before he actually does anything of note.

Unexpected? Sure.

But who the hell would have been satisfied with that? Years of buildup just to get blueballed because, "i'm sUbVeRtInG ExPeCtAtIoNs".

Ugh...

I'm more nervous about the big finale now than before... The showrunners could do the same thing just for shock value instead of an ending worthy of the characters and our intelligences..

[Punisher007]

Jorah's death was handled REALLY well, I'll give the show that. Going down fighting besides his beloved queen, refusing to fall and die until he was sure that she was safe, and how distraught Dany was. We've NEVER seen her that way before, and Emilia acted it really well.

[Master Planner]

Jorah's death was handled REALLY well, I'll give the show that. Going down fighting besides his beloved queen, refusing to fall and die until he was sure that she was safe, and how distraught Dany was. We've NEVER seen her that way before, and Emilia acted it really well.

I agree that while the episode had many big flaws, the departure of Theon, Jorah and Melissandre were great. Jorah's death is Barristan's death, only better in execution and Melissandre probably had the most beautiful death visually and musically.

[TriggerWarning]

Jorah's death was handled REALLY well, I'll give the show that. Going down fighting besides his beloved queen, refusing to fall and die until he was sure that she was safe, and how distraught Dany was. We've NEVER seen her that way before, and Emilia acted it really well.

I also loved the scene because Dany actually picked up a sword and was fighting alongside him. Too often we see the helpless damsel doing nothing but cower (hey Sansa and every other female not named Brienne or Arya) but Dany refused to cower and actually did help by killing a few of the dead.

[MichaelC]

Dany's been fighting since her dragons first got big enough to fly. She's been a lethal pilot for years now.

[gregpersons]

Jorah's death was handled REALLY well, I'll give the show that. Going down fighting besides his beloved queen, refusing to fall and die until he was sure that she was safe, and how distraught Dany was. We've NEVER seen her that way before, and Emilia acted it really well.

I agree that while the episode had many big flaws, the departure of Theon, Jorah and Melissandre were great. Jorah's death is Barristan's death, only better in execution and Melissandre probably had the most beautiful death visually and musically.

Besides how disappointing the Night King/White Walkers ended up being in their big moment, Jorah's death was the most irritating part of this episode. Jorah got the death he wanted -- like you say, going down beside his queen, refusing to die until she was safe, etc... This contrasts with how the ASOIAF characters never get the death they "want" or "deserve." It's a major thematic aspect to the series.

—Great warriors like Khal Drogo die of an infection... or Robert Baratheon killed by a pig... or Tywin Lannister shot on the toilet.

—Honorable men like Ned Stark killed on a stage branded a traitor by a psycho boy-king... or his son Robb murdered dishonorably at a wedding... or The Viper having his head crushed just as he was the precipice of 'justice'


Ever since D&D ran out of books to adapt, the deaths in the show have been far less chaotic and more "beautiful" which I think is missing the larger point that Martin is making, which is that the idea of a "heroic" death is a lie. Death is ugly, in any form.

It's notable that the only characters to die "ugly" deaths in the post-book run of the show are Shireen and Hodor — and those two plot points came from GRRM.

[Havok83]

It's notable that the only characters to die "ugly" deaths in the post-book run of the show are Shireen and Hodor — and those two plot points came from GRRM.

Ramsey died an ugly death. There was nothing beautiful about being fed to his hounds

[Deathstroke]

Ramsey died an ugly death. There was nothing beautiful about being fed to his hounds

Oh I don't know, I thought it was a beautiful way to get rid of that colossal prick.

[MiddleMan]

Oh I don't know, I thought it was a beautiful way to get rid of that colossal prick.

agreed

becoming dog poop was probably his most meaningful contribution to the world

[stargazer01]

some people die peacefully.

[Havok83]

I mean we all cheered when he died but how it happened was actually pretty gruesome

[Theleviathan]

Besides how disappointing the Night King/White Walkers ended up being in their big moment, Jorah's death was the most irritating part of this episode. Jorah got the death he wanted -- like you say, going down beside his queen, refusing to die until she was safe, etc... This contrasts with how the ASOIAF characters never get the death they "want" or "deserve." It's a major thematic aspect to the series.

—Great warriors like Khal Drogo die of an infection... or Robert Baratheon killed by a pig... or Tywin Lannister shot on the toilet.

—Honorable men like Ned Stark killed on a stage branded a traitor by a psycho boy-king... or his son Robb murdered dishonorably at a wedding... or The Viper having his head crushed just as he was the precipice of 'justice'


Ever since D&D ran out of books to adapt, the deaths in the show have been far less chaotic and more "beautiful" which I think is missing the larger point that Martin is making, which is that the idea of a "heroic" death is a lie. Death is ugly, in any form.

It's notable that the only characters to die "ugly" deaths in the post-book run of the show are Shireen and Hodor — and those two plot points came from GRRM.

He's also big on not going down the road of the same tropes over and over again. Plus, I'd argue almost all of the deaths at the end of season 6 were handled quite well by the show.

D&D have made many mistakes but let's be real clear about something - GRRM will never finish his books. And not because he's working so hard on them....but because he made such a convoluted mess of them that the narrative is all but lost. He should get enormous credit for creating this amazing story, but he is given far too much of a pedestal when it comes to the flaws for the story.