Game of Thrones

[Theleviathan]

Plenty of room for all that and more in 2 giant books.

All of this wonderful world building and richness of character becomes just random nonsense if the time isnt taken to flesh it out and make the audience/reader care.

Great! Now all Martin has to do is figure out how to get out of the mess he's been stuck in for two books already and we can just coast to the finish line!

In a hypothetical world in which Martin didn't make the initial aging mistakes and his five year jump problem wasn't incurred, maybe this is possible. In reality, he'll never live to see his series finished and I'm convinced he's not even sure how to get to from the current point to the end even if that was possible. He is stuck in a mess of his own making. Do I think he could make a more rich and rewarding ending? Absolutely. But HIS problem may not even allow him to get that far.

[Emperor-of-Dragons]

Again this assumption he will finish the books?!!!
Whereas all the few intel we have point in the direction of Martin not finishing it.
I know you're disappointedby the series ending (at least in the execution), but it is for the moment the only thing we have and maybe the only thing we'll have!

I think the chances of him finishing the books get slimmer every year that goes by. I mean it been 8 years since the last book and with all the other things he has been doing I don't see a new one coming for at least another few years. Add into that his age and not to be blunt but with he weight and health, and the chances get even slimmer.

He's been writing Winds for awhile now, that book has a really good chance of getting finished. I was never hopeful about the 7th book. But Winds being released is perfectly reasonable.

[Madam-Shogun-Assassin]

Ctfu

[Madam-Shogun-Assassin]

Great! Now all Martin has to do is figure out how to get out of the mess he's been stuck in for two books already and we can just coast to the finish line!

In a hypothetical world in which Martin didn't make the initial aging mistakes and his five year jump problem wasn't incurred, maybe this is possible. In reality, he'll never live to see his series finished and I'm convinced he's not even sure how to get to from the current point to the end even if that was possible. He is stuck in a mess of his own making. Do I think he could make a more rich and rewarding ending? Absolutely. But HIS problem may not even allow him to get that far.

Worst case scenario he can let other writers spinoff other stories within the setting. I mean that's better than nothing. That's what George Lucas did.

[ZeroBG82]

Oooof

Ned is low key is kind of a **** character.

I wonder what his plan with Jon was if he didn't get beheaded though.

Problem with the WW is that the threat was TOO big and could only be solved by a deus ex machina hail mary.

Ned had no plan with Jon. His 'plan' was to raise Jon, then send him to the Watch where his true heritage was no longer likely to get him killed. We saw all that. All that was left was to tell Jon the truth. Which Ned would have done once Jon was a sworn and loyal man of the Night's Watch, where he had sworn to hold no titles, own no lands, and father no children. And thus couldn't be a threat to Robert. Jon can't know the truth until then, because, as we've seen, he might tell people and then **** hits the fan.

The whole point was just to keep Jon alive. Robert would have had him killed if he'd known the truth.

[Variant]

If Winds of Winter don't come out by at least 2020, people will just stop carring.

Honestly, I stopped caring years ago. I use to be one of those people that would visit the Westeros forums for updates and take part in Theories and Character discussions. But when we're talking about 8 years since the last book, I've just sort of moved on.

At this point, I suspect the book series likely won't be finished necessarily by him. I dearly hope I'm proven wrong, because I want to see how George Martin ends the series. But considering all the side projects he's doing. And I hate to be a jerk or blunt about it, but as others have pointed out, combined with his age and his heath. Every year that goes by it's looking less likely.

[Johnny Peril]

Okay, so the way l understand it is Carts was trying to poison Can't and was using that girl who worked in the kitchen to help him. So who is that girl? She was seen with him in the crypt but is she from the North or did he bring her with him? And what happened to the original Dothraki (women and children) who acted as the "help"?

[XPac]

Ned had no plan with Jon. His 'plan' was to raise Jon, then send him to the Watch where his true heritage was no longer likely to get him killed. We saw all that. All that was left was to tell Jon the truth. Which Ned would have done once Jon was a sworn and loyal man of the Night's Watch, where he had sworn to hold no titles, own no lands, and father no children. And thus couldn't be a threat to Robert. Jon can't know the truth until then, because, as we've seen, he might tell people and then **** hits the fan.

The whole point was just to keep Jon alive. Robert would have had him killed if he'd known the truth.

That does show one big difference between Ned and Jon though. Despite both having a strong sense of honor and transparency with family, Ned unlike Jon knows how to keep his mouth shut. He kept that secret to his grave, while Jon blabbed it to his family a day or two later. Which is a lot longer than Sansa could keep her mouth shut, but in her case that probably shouldn't be as much of a surprise.

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

Worst case scenario he can let other writers spinoff other stories within the setting. I mean that's better than nothing. That's what George Lucas did.

Yeah that's not happening. Martin is FAMOUSLY disdainful of people writing stories in other authors worlds or with other authors characters. He believes that if you want to write you should create it yourself. He basically said he would never let anyone finish the books if something happened to him. Can't see him letting anyone touch that world

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

That does show one big difference between Ned and Jon though. Despite both having a strong sense of honor and transparency with family, Ned unlike Jon knows how to keep his mouth shut. He kept that secret to his grave, while Jon blabbed it to his family a day or two later. Which is a lot longer than Sansa could keep her mouth shut, but in her case that probably shouldn't be as much of a surprise.

Tbf once Robert died it became irrelevant. Robert legitimately would have waged war on the North if he knew about Jon. A HUGE section of the first book is Ned being aborent over Robert's desire to kill Dany because she was a Targaryan and how much he hated the Lannisters for what happened with Rheagar's other kids. A big part of that is the Jon situation

[Theleviathan]

Yeah that's not happening. Martin is FAMOUSLY disdainful of people writing stories in other authors worlds or with other authors characters. He believes that if you want to write you should create it yourself. He basically said he would never let anyone finish the books if something happened to him. Can't see him letting anyone touch that world

And even if that did happen, there is nothing short of a 100% chance that author gets the D&D treatment. "That's not what George would've done!"

Take Shireen as an example. When that happened on the show the Martin bobos poured out of the woodwork saying he would never do that. Then D&D say, "Nope, that was given to us by Martin" and the unwashed Martin worshippers crawl back in their holes to wait for their next chance. If Martin doesn't finish this....I pity whomever tries to. It'll be utterly thankless.

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

Ctfu

Preston Jacob the guy who is mocked all over the fan community because of how batshit insane his theories are is upset that his theories weren't confirmed. Shocking

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

And even if that did happen, there is nothing short of a 100% chance that author gets the D&D treatment. "That's not what George would've done!"

Take Shireen as an example. When that happened on the show the Martin bobos poured out of the woodwork saying he would never do that. Then D&D say, "Nope, that was given to us by Martin" and the unwashed Martin worshippers crawl back in their holes to wait for their next chance. If Martin doesn't finish this....I pity whomever tries to. It'll be utterly thankless.

Everything they don't like ends up being blabbering over how they changed something and Martin wouldn't do it that way.

[AndrewCrossett]

Yeah that's not happening. Martin is FAMOUSLY disdainful of people writing stories in other authors worlds or with other authors characters. He believes that if you want to write you should create it yourself. He basically said he would never let anyone finish the books if something happened to him. Can't see him letting anyone touch that world

But isn't that exactly what Benioff & Weiss have been doing for several seasons? Martin's disdain will cost Random House, and his own heirs, millions of dollars in unrealized revenue. Not to mention sales of the existing novels will probably crater when people realize the story will never be finished.

To be fair to D&D, what's happening now is not what they signed up for. They were supposed to adapt Martin's story, not finish it. They did a brilliant job of the former, not so much of the latter. I've enjoyed the show right through, but I certainly admit that even someone with no knowledge at all of the books could point to the spot in this series where one writer's work ended and another's began.

When the show started, it seemed like a no-brainer that Winds of Winter would be done by the time it caught up, and that there would be at least a detailed outline if not a finished draft of Dream of Spring to work off of. I'm sure Martin's failure to deliver irritates D&D as much as it does the readers. I suspect that's the real reason the endgame has been so rushed. That, plus the actors might not be up for doing the 10-12 seasons it would take to really do justice to this epic.

[Flash Gordon]

I mean I hope he finishes the books, but nobody is entitled to him finishing them.

The biggest problem here is the show being cut short, despite Martin and HBO wanting more. I'd honestly rather the show end by randomly just cutting to black than the botched rush to the finish line we got.