Game of Thrones

[Emperor-of-Dragons]

I'm pretty sure I'm going to hate the finale. This season is so disappointing in many ways. They can kill just about everyone and I don't care anymore.

What bugs me is how all the other tidbits just kinda died too. I mean what did the red priestess say to Varys?, what was the point of Quaithe? What's the point of Bran now? There's a **** ton of other stuff, but those comes immediately to mind.

[Emperor-of-Dragons]

Gonan be hilarious how bad this ending will be hated

GRRM ain't ever finishing that last book knowing people hate how it ends anyway lol.

The spoiler ending makes. no. sense. It doesn't matter how good the charcters would be written if it makes. no. sense. how they end up where they do lol.

A lot of Jon Snow fans are going to be pissed for the same reasons Dani's fans are pissed.

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

What bugs me is how all the other tidbits just kinda died too. I mean what did the red priestess say to Varys?, what was the point of Quaithe? What's the point of Bran now? There's a **** ton of other stuff, but those comes immediately to mind.

Quaithe was pretty clearly a book plot that they brought in early that they dropped. Otherwise she would have appeared in more than just the 2nd season. Bran will likely have a final role to play in the end (especially if you subscribe to spoilers). I’m assuming you mean the voice in the fire that spoke to Vary’s? Again I don’t think it matters, it just established his distaste for magic and people like Melisandre

[The_Greatest_Username]

A lot of Jon Snow fans are going to be pissed for the same reasons Dani's fans are pissed.

I think they’re already pissed because Jon only has 3-4 lines that he’s been cycling through this entire season.

[Punisher007]

Honestly I thought Danys motivation was pretty much the same as Grey Worms for chicking the spear at the Lannister soldiers who surrendered. They were mad and in pain from their personal loss, and wanted revenge when the opportunity was there. I think it was that simple. If there was more time to process everything, it's entirely possible she might not have done it.

It's easy for viewers at home to calmly conclude that she was doing the wrong thing, and it WAS the wrong thing. But if you're a person in pain from dealing with the loss of loved ones you definately might be more inclined to say F' it and let them burn. Not that it would be right, but it's sort of understandable.

She's lost people before though, it's nothing new to her. It just feels like the writers twisting the characters into whatever is needed to make their story work.

And when you consider that HBO offered D&D basically whatever they wanted and those two insisted that they could tell this story in only 6 episodes, well it doesn't paint them in any better light when the pacing is one of the biggest complaints.

[XPac]

She's lost people before though, it's nothing new to her. It just feels like the writers twisting the characters into whatever is needed to make their story work.

And when you consider that HBO offered D&D basically whatever they wanted and those two insisted that they could tell this story in only 6 episodes, well it doesn't paint them in any better light when the pacing is one of the biggest complaints.

Sure she's lost people before. But never to this degree in such short amount of time. At this almost everyone close to her is either "dead" or has betrayed her at this point. Her support system is basically gone. Yeah, Grey Worm is there but he's not in much of a better place than she is.

She was at her weakest emotionally in a time when the usual people who hold her in check can't do it for one reason or another. It was the perfect storm for something like this to happen to her.

[Gaelforce]

Honestly I thought Danys motivation was pretty much the same as Grey Worms for chicking the spear at the Lannister soldiers who surrendered. They were mad and in pain from their personal loss, and wanted revenge when the opportunity was there. I think it was that simple. If there was more time to process everything, it's entirely possible she might not have done it.

It's easy for viewers at home to calmly conclude that she was doing the wrong thing, and it WAS the wrong thing. But if you're a person in pain from dealing with the loss of loved ones you definately might be more inclined to say F' it and let them burn. Not that it would be right, but it's sort of understandable.

It is...and it isn't.

Take, for example, the death of Khal Drogo who I'm guessing she loved more than Missandei.

Did she burn all of the people they had saved? Or just the woman who was responsible?

Yes, she used threats in the past, but then as the story went on, tempered those threats by narrowing her focus. Don't burn down the whole city, kill those responsible for the injustice in that city.

Qarth is a prime example - yes, she threatened to burn them all down, but only after negotiating and then begging for the lives of her people. It was all she had left to try at that point.

I stand by my gut feeling that there was a vital step left out of the equation that they tried to squeeze in with the line or two about how these people (who weren't slaves) hadn't rebelled against Cersei, so they deserve death, too. That's a hell of a big leap to make for someone out to 'break the wheel' of oppression, and I just feel there should have been something in there that demonstrated that these people spurned her. Right now, all they know is a crazy lady with a dragon burned down the gold/supply train and those who guarded it, burned up the Tarly's, and was threatening to burn down King's Landing. From the perspective of the story in the show, these people were terrified of her and were never given any opportunity to know her, rally to her cause or love her.

That's the gap I wanted to see filled.

[XPac]

It is...and it isn't.

Take, for example, the death of Khal Drogo who I'm guessing she loved more than Missandei.

Did she burn all of the people they had saved? Or just the woman who was responsible?

I stand by my gut feeling that there was a vital step left out of the equation that they tried to squeeze in with the line or two about how these people (who weren't slaves) hadn't rebelled against Cersei, so they deserve death, too. That's a hell of a big leap to make for someone out to 'break the wheel' of oppression, and I just feel there should have been something in there that demonstrated that these people spurned her. Right now, all they know is a crazy lady with a dragon burned down the gold/supply train and those who guarded it, burned up the Tarly's, and was threatening to burn down King's Landing. From the perspective of the story in the show, these people were terrified of her and were never given any opportunity to know her, rally to her cause or love her.

That's the gap I wanted to see filled.

If the ONLY think at the time bugging Dany was JUST Missandei's death, I think it's very possible things might have happened differently. But there's a cummulative effect from almost everyone she close to her either dying or "betraying" her. I think at that momemt in time she felt very much alone in her grief.

As far as the people of KL... if there's a rationale behind her actions beyond rage, I suppose it would be her deciding to rule through fear if she can't rule through love. Jon may have the stronger claim, but if she can kill anyone and everyone who stands against her that won't matter at this point. Course, that's also why someone likely needs to kill her.

[MindofShadow]

A lot of Jon Snow fans are going to be pissed for the same reasons Dani's fans are pissed.

To an extent but

spoilers:

He gets to live int hew ild with Ghost and the Wildings, who he likes anyway. He never wanted the throne anyway lol. That ain't bad really. better than hanging around creepy Bran or dealing with Sansa second guessign him every five minutes.

end of spoilers

The problem is that

spoilers:

all the R+L= J stuff, all the he is a targaryan stuff, all the prophesy stuff, how he is the true king... it all means nothing in the end. It served no real plot point other than to make Dany nervous... and even then, all it turned into was Jon saying "i don't want it" over and over and over again. We never even saw his ex-siblings reaction to the news. We barely saw anyones reaction. IT all was worthless. You could throw it all out an dth estory doens't change at all. Instead of a king, Jon coulda just been the bastard that became "more" and then lost it all because he sacrifced it for the better of the realm. And its the exact ame fucking story.

end of spoilers

[MindofShadow]

I think they’re already pissed because Jon only has 3-4 lines that he’s been cycling through this entire season.

His arc basically ended the second the night king died. ANd he didn't evne get to be the one to end it lol

Would have been better forthe story if they simply had him sacrifice himself to kill the NK and end the WW for good.

Him being the true king has been a dead end so far other than sayign "i dont want it" over and over and over and over and over.

If the story had time to breath, it could have been useflu to see the politics behind him being the true king as the news moved through the 7 kingdoms. Dany's advisors actually advise her politcally for once, and as she tries to gather support from the other houses, she realizes the support to shifting to Jon... thus making her even more unhinged and realzing her claim to the throne is gonna have to come by pure force.

or something. anything is better than "i never wanted it" ove rand over and over

[XPac]

A lot of Jon Snow fans are going to be pissed for the same reasons Dani's fans are pissed.

Part of me wonders if they are going to leave Jon in a somewhat ambigious state so that can potentially deal with it later.

This of course assumes he even survives, as I'm not spoiled and have no idea what his fate is. BUt I DO think that even if the show is cancelled, HBO could probably return and do another movie or mini-series as a follow up if they can get the actors to give it another shot. I'm sure HBO would be willing to spend the money.

If they don't put him on the throne now (and it's entirely possible they do, in which case my arguement is moot), it gives them something for him to do later. Again, assuming they don't just kill him.

[XPac]

His arc basically ended the second the night king died. ANd he didn't evne get to be the one to end it lol

Would have been better forthe story if they simply had him sacrifice himself to kill the NK and end the WW for good.

Him being the true king has been a dead end so far other than sayign "i dont want it" over and over and over and over and over.

If the story had time to breath, it could have been useflu to see the politics behind him being the true king as the news moved through the 7 kingdoms. Dany's advisors actually advise her politcally for once, and as she tries to gather support from the other houses, she realizes the support to shifting to Jon... thus making her even more unhinged and realzing her claim to the throne is gonna have to come by pure force.

or something. anything is better than "i never wanted it" ove rand over and over

The thing is, despite saying he doesn't want any authority he keeps getting it though. He became the Night Commander and eventually the King of the North. So not wanting it hasn't necessarily stopped his climb so far.

But yeah, I do thnk despite how rushed things were she did come to realize that her claiming the throne needed to come from pure force. She knew Jon has the better claim, and she realized in his conversation with him that she needed to rule with fear instead of love, unlike down south. That could have been more drawn out, but she came to that on her own. So there was some semblance of rational thought behind her actions even though she executed that in a fairly insane manner.

[Emperor-of-Dragons]

To an extent but

spoilers:

He gets to live int hew ild with Ghost and the Wildings, who he likes anyway. He never wanted the throne anyway lol. That ain't bad really. better than hanging around creepy Bran or dealing with Sansa second guessign him every five minutes.

end of spoilers

The problem is that

spoilers:

all the R+L= J stuff, all the he is a targaryan stuff, all the prophesy stuff, how he is the true king... it all means nothing in the end. It served no real plot point other than to make Dany nervous... and even then, all it turned into was Jon saying "i don't want it" over and over and over again. We never even saw his ex-siblings reaction to the news. We barely saw anyones reaction. IT all was worthless. You could throw it all out an dth estory doens't change at all. Instead of a king, Jon coulda just been the bastard that became "more" and then lost it all because he sacrifced it for the better of the realm. And its the exact ame fucking story.

end of spoilers

spoilers:

His story arc concluduling like that make it worse for me, cause I was never into the character as is, I thought he was boring tbh. And his underwhelming arc just put the nail in the coffin with me. Also keep in mind they shot two endings for Jon. One where he exiles himself, and one where he dies to throw off leakers. I do suspect he'll live tho, but I'm sure the HOW will be disappointing considering how does he not get killed by Greyworm, or Drogon? I personally think they can only write a cop out reason for him not getting killed

end of spoilers

[Punisher007]

Part of the problem with all this is that, when the show was at it's best, the tragedy made sense. Characters made choices, their were consequences for those choices, you got to SEE those choices, and even the wrong choices you could see how/why they were made in-context. There was care put into it.

Ned, Robert, Robb, Catelyn, Joffrey, Viserys, Khal Drogo, Tywin, Oberyn, etc. It all made sense and it worked.

Now, we're either for to rely solely on "foreshadowing," which is not good enough in an of itself if we don't get to see the process, or characters make inexplicable decisions on a dime just because the plot needs them to.

Basically what once had care put into it is now sloppy.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mlNyqhnc1M

This sums up pretty nicely my problems with the execution of Dany's story here.

[TriggerWarning]

Arya the murderous assassin motivated solely by revenge?

Arya who doesn't kill innocents? Arya who nearly got herself killed because she refused to assassinate the actress who didn't deserve to be killed. Arya who turned away from her quest from vengeance after some advice from someone she respected as opposed to Daenerys who despite the advice of everyone went on a killing rampage of innocent?

Yet that Arya.