Game of Thrones

[Midvillian1322]

Oh indeed, maybe we're in for a surprise.

I don't think so though, Arya has been quite shocked by what happened, as was Tyrion. They both know who Jon is the son of so odds are that they are going to do everything they can to place our Johnny boy on the throne

But Jon of course was also very shocked, now he knows that "his queen" is unfit for the job.

And really, what else is possible ? Danny executing everyone who annoys her and finally being dat queen of dat 7 kingdoms? That would be a ballsy end, i'd say that, but i don't see that happening.

Cercei making a come back? (i ain't dead, motherfuckas!!!!!!!!!)

Jon dies with Dany. Tyerion and Sansa start a council joined by other lords like the newly appointed Gendry. No more Kings, it becomes a democracy in a few generaions. Jk that's the fairytale ending and would not fit with this show.

Edit:Not

[XPac]

The problem with Jon is that his main role in the overarching story is to be the guy that unites all the squabbling factions against the common threat of the White Walkers, because he's the one guy that everyone else more or less trusts and respects. But since that whole plot has been resolved already, they have to kind of awkwardly shoehorn him into this conflict with Dany which doesn't make him look heroic at all since his choices are to either just be subservient to her, or to be a puppet of her enemies. Maybe they'll have him renounce the throne and break up Westeros back into the seven constituent kingdoms, but that's hardly a good ending either since we've seen plenty of examples of how political fragmentation can lead to endless rounds of needless conflict.

I don't think Jon will end up looking like a puppet of Danys enemies if she turns on her, because after what she did it becomes a matter of the greater good. He wouldn't do it because Danys enemies don't like Dany... he would do it because it's the right thing to do.

But he will have to compromise himself regardless, as he's going back on his word. Not to mention killing the woman he loves. So he's pretty much going to be a wreck no matter what he does. I don't think this will necessarily make him look bad... but this show isn't going out of his way to make Jon look super awesome either.

[XPac]

Jon dies with Dany. Tyerion and Sansa start a council joined by other lords like the newly appointed Gendry. No more Kings, it becomes a democracy in a few generaions. Jk that's the fairytale ending and would not fit with this show.

Edit:Not

It's sort of like an RPG where you have multiple ending, where you have a REALLY BAD, a REALLY GOOD, and a couple in between.

I think the fairy tale ending is Jon and Dany getting married and living happily ever after ruling Westeros. That would likely be the Disney Channel adaptation of the story, minus the incest.

The straight up darkside ending would be Cersi somehow coming out on top or just killing everyone with the Wild Fire.

Dany ruling would be kinda bad. Jon killing Dany and ruling would be kinda good.

Right now I'm leaning towards straight up middle ground... Dany dies at Jons hands, but Jon PROBABLY doesn't get the Iron Throne. Bad guys are all gone, and the main good guy at least saves the day and survives. But no one really lives happily ever after.

[Starter Set]

If he refuses the throne yet again, after what happened, that would make him one hell of a coward as far as i'm concerned.

Responsibility is not just a funny little word you throw at teens when they misbehave. He's the heir.

A good king may give people of westeros decades of peace. Hero 101 : you answer the freaking calling.

Or then you go back home banging your sister like a good Targaryen. ^^

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

Didn't Viserys treated Daenerys as his property, he would beat, slap, manahndle her whenever the mood struck him. He thought nothing of dragging her by her hair, pinching her nipples and generally shoving her around. So while he didn't rape her that doesnÂ’t negate his sexual, emotional, and physical abuse to her.

He violated the Dothraki capital's no-weapons-allowed rule by carrying a sword and threaten Daenerys with it. He threatened to cut out Dany's child, right there in front of Drogo. Not taking action would have made the Khal look cowardly in fron of his khalasar, and Drogo was certainly not going to take it lying down.

Again even the most negative reading of Viserys still has him at

-never killed anyone that we know of.
-never raped anyone (possibly tried once)
-never tortured anyone.

There’s a world of difference between Viserys and Ramsay it Euron. Viserys was an abusive brother who lashed out at his weaker sister over their situation. He wasn’t a good guy. But he wasn’t a total monster.

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

It's crazy how easy it was for Aegon to conquer Westeros. But Dani was basically conveniently gimped, which makes her advisers look dumb.



Also what was with that place where the WW are from? I'm willing to bet their saving that **** for the spinoff. I wonder if that's where all of the myth heavy stuff is going to be relegated to I think.

Aegon didn't have Westerosi advisors who prioritized not killing the people over him getting on the throne. That's the biggest difference. Every Aegon battle story pretty much ends with "and then the dragons came into play and it was over".

-the toughest battle he fought was against the Stormlord Durrandon and the battle basically was that his troops kept advancing and advancing against the odds until.... they got to the dragon who roasted them.
-Harrenhall was basically just Aegon using Balerion to roast everyone.
-The Stormlands and the Reach were conquered in the Field of Fire where all three dragons just burned **** up
-The North didn't even want to tangle with the dragons and just kneeled.
-The Lady of the Vale just needed to see a Dragon and no how threatening it was for her to peacefully join.

Dorne was the only one that didn't concede because they had incredible war tactics and they got lucky killing a dragon which gave them some leverage (it's also highly rumored that they either captured Rhaenys or found something on Dragonstone that made Aegon stop pursuing them).

Meanwhile Tyrion had Dany refraining from using dragons and fighting a tactical war where they took Casterly Rock and were blindsided by Euron's fleet. Dany won everytime she used dragons

[XPac]

Aegon didn't have Westerosi advisors who prioritized not killing the people over him getting on the throne. That's the biggest difference. Every Aegon battle story pretty much ends with "and then the dragons came into play and it was over".

-the toughest battle he fought was against the Stormlord Durrandon and the battle basically was that his troops kept advancing and advancing against the odds until.... they got to the dragon who roasted them.
-Harrenhall was basically just Aegon using Balerion to roast everyone.
-The Stormlands and the Reach were conquered in the Field of Fire where all three dragons just burned **** up
-The North didn't even want to tangle with the dragons and just kneeled.
-The Lady of the Vale just needed to see a Dragon and no how threatening it was for her to peacefully join.

Dorne was the only one that didn't concede because they had incredible war tactics and they got lucky killing a dragon which gave them some leverage (it's also highly rumored that they either captured Rhaenys or found something on Dragonstone that made Aegon stop pursuing them).

Meanwhile Tyrion had Dany refraining from using dragons and fighting a tactical war where they took Casterly Rock and were blindsided by Euron's fleet. Dany won everytime she used dragons

In hindsight I think it was obvious that Tyrion was favoring politics and PR over tactical war strategy. Because Dany's forces were so overwhelmingly more powerful than anything Cersi could possible throw at them, they almost didn't need to worry about military tactics. In hindsight the Dragon alone could beat Cersi's forces without Dany needed to commit a single soldier to the ground.

So Tyrions strategy, while costing Dany some defeats she otherwise might not have sufferend, in hindsight probably had the better long game. The hard part isn't winning a battle against Cersi, but rather winning the favor of the people of Westeros. The most effective means of doing the former clearly would make the later all but impossible.

So while Tyron kept looking bad with failure after failure, in a lot of ways he did end up being right.

[XPac]

If he refuses the throne yet again, after what happened, that would make him one hell of a coward as far as i'm concerned.

Responsibility is not just a funny little word you throw at teens when they misbehave. He's the heir.

A good king may give people of westeros decades of peace. Hero 101 : you answer the freaking calling.

Or then you go back home banging your sister like a good Targaryen. ^^

Depending on the circumstances (as Jon may not even end up having the option to sit on the throne even if he wants it), I do agree Jon in some ways does look bad for refusing to take the throne. Honestly I don't think the show is necessarily trying to make Jon look as good as possible. It's just not that kind of show where they are trying to put the main good guy on any sort of pedistal. But I could be wrong... we'll see.

[CRaymond]

I think Jon's time with Mance Rayder and the Free Folk will inform his decisions regarding the Iron Throne.

I think Bran Stark is the North's dragon-OFF switch.

[TriggerWarning]

Jon dies with Dany. Tyerion and Sansa start a council joined by other lords like the newly appointed Gendry. No more Kings, it becomes a democracy in a few generaions. Jk that's the fairytale ending and would not fit with this show.

Edit:Not

Actually I think your about right except I think Jon lives but goes north in self imposed exile to live with the Wildlings.

[Madam-Shogun-Assassin]

The problem with Jon is that his main role in the overarching story is to be the guy that unites all the squabbling factions against the common threat of the White Walkers, because he's the one guy that everyone else more or less trusts and respects. But since that whole plot has been resolved already, they have to kind of awkwardly shoehorn him into this conflict with Dany which doesn't make him look heroic at all since his choices are to either just be subservient to her, or to be a puppet of her enemies. Maybe they'll have him renounce the throne and break up Westeros back into the seven constituent kingdoms, but that's hardly a good ending either since we've seen plenty of examples of how political fragmentation can lead to endless rounds of needless conflict.

That's why I think this is going to be a more esoteric ending than a so called "bittersweet" ending.

[Starter Set]

I admit, the scenario of a separation of the 7 kingdoms into independant states is a possible one.

I would be tempted, if it goes that way, to scream at the screen "those fools didn't learn a single freaking thing!!!" buuuuut, that's a possibility, no denying it.

[Madam-Shogun-Assassin]

In hindsight I think it was obvious that Tyrion was favoring politics and PR over tactical war strategy. Because Dany's forces were so overwhelmingly more powerful than anything Cersi could possible throw at them, they almost didn't need to worry about military tactics. In hindsight the Dragon alone could beat Cersi's forces without Dany needed to commit a single soldier to the ground.

So Tyrions strategy, while costing Dany some defeats she otherwise might not have sufferend, in hindsight probably had the better long game. The hard part isn't winning a battle against Cersi, but rather winning the favor of the people of Westeros. The most effective means of doing the former clearly would make the later all but impossible.

So while Tyron kept looking bad with failure after failure, in a lot of ways he did end up being right.

If he had just let Dani taken out the red keep we wouldn't be having this conversation. So it's a moot point either way. Also remember how people was all like. "Gee it looks like Dani's forces are decimated, she can't take KL now"

[XPac]

Actually I think your about right except I think Jon lives but goes north in self imposed exile to live with the Wildlings.

I'm 99% sure Jon survives. Given the sucess of GoT, I think down the line they might want to revisit them even as a movie or a short mini-series or whatever, and Jon would be 100% needed for that IF the actors are willing to come back.

[XPac]

If he had just let Dani taken out the red keep we wouldn't be having this conversation. So it's a moot point either way. Also remember how people was all like. "Gee it looks like Dani's forces are decimated, she can't take KL now"

Firstly, Tyrion doesn't "let" Dany do anything. He can give advice, and she can either take it or not. Ultimately the ball is still in her court.

But yes, Tyrion did try and give them the opportunity to surrender to avoid any unecessary deaths or conflicts. You can argue that tactically that is a mistake, but clearly that's sort of the advisors that Dany needs. She needs to be reigned in by people like Tyrion and Varys. Their concerns over Dany ended up being justified. Dany from a purely military standpoint was correct... but I think Tyrion was more looking at the long game. The fight itself never really concerned him, since he never had any doubts that Dany could win even after her forces were decidmated fighting the Night King. The outcome of the actual battle was never in doubt, so that was never a priority to him.