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Thread: Game of Thrones

  1. #7651
    The Forever Walker remydat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KNIGHT OF THE LAKE View Post
    If many viewers saw it coming it was setup properly.

    Even if others didn’t, you can’t say it wasn’t there. You did watch a whole 7 seasons where this particular character had been threatening to do exactly that many times. Not just once in passing. It was there for you. Just like all her killings and brutality even when it wasn’t necessary or merited. You can choose to ignore it or justify it, but it was there.

    Even your slavery Bay comment..... literally the very last season she was there in one of the last episodes she had to be talked down from burning everything by Tyrion. The next season she was executing prisoners who didn’t kneel and had to be talked down from burning King’s Landing. So if Slavers Bay was teaching moment for her, it completely failed.

    The desire was always part of her, the brutality was always there. It was set up. Fans saw it. A lot of the fans who didn’t see it have to ignore her own stated intentions and justify her cruelty over the course of the show.
    What people saw coming was Cersei putting people in the Red Keep and Dany burning it down to kill her and in doing so killing the civilians. That is what the narrative set up ie that the civilians would be used as human shields. That was Cersei's plan.

    In the end though they were not used as shields because Dany could have killed Cersei without killing them. So the narrative fails because it sets up a premise as civilians dying as human shields but then gives us civiliams dying for shits and giggles.
    It's hard for me to listen to someone not in my position. A caterpillar can't relate to what an eagle envisions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelC View Post
    Again this is just a weird way to justify not liking it.

    If a character is talking about doing one thing the whole show and finally dies it when she gets the opportunity, guess what? That’s part of her character. Even if you thought she wouldn’t. She always wanted to and she did. Stating intent is not foreshadowing. It’s desire and will.

  3. #7653
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    Quote Originally Posted by remydat View Post
    What people saw coming was Cersei putting people in the Red Keep and Dany burning it down to kill her and in doing so killing the civilians. That is what the narrative set up ie that the civilians would be used as human shields. That was Cersei's plan.

    In the end though they were not used as shields because Dany could have killed Cersei without killing them. So the narrative fails because it sets up a premise as civilians dying as human shields but then gives us civiliams dying for shite and giggles.
    You just justified killing prisoners of war, something good characters like Robb Stark found abhorrent , as okay because they didn’t bend the knee and could be considered evil. Well all those people came in because Cersei turned them against Dany. They were defying Dany and choosing Cersei. Same as Tarly. Tarly may have been a sword of Cersei but those people were a shield. Again if you’re going to justify death by people choosing to be used in Cersei’s cause even when they aren’t a threat..... we’ll there you go

  4. #7654
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post
    also relevant...



    Those books ian't getting done lol
    He also said as soon as he finishes Winds he will work on Fire and Blood volume 2. Even if this book comes out this year, no way the next one comes out any time in the next 5. Realistically don’t be surprised if we don’t get an end for another 10 years

  5. #7655
    The Forever Walker remydat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KNIGHT OF THE LAKE View Post
    You just justified killing prisoners of war, something good characters like Robb Stark found abhorrent , as okay because they didn’t bend the knee and could be considered evil. Well all those people came in because Cersei turned them against Dany. They were defying Dany and choosing Cersei. Same as Tarly. Tarly may have been a sword of Cersei but those people were a shield. Again if you’re going to justify death by people choosing to be used in Cersei’s cause even when they aren’t a threat..... we’ll there you go
    Again they were not a shield. They did not fight for Cersei and Cersei could have been killed without harming them.

    Explain in your own words why these people had to die in order to kill Cersei because a shield means you need to get past the shield to kill the target.

    Until you can explain exactly why their deaths were necessary to kill Cersei then they were not shields and the narrative failed.
    It's hard for me to listen to someone not in my position. A caterpillar can't relate to what an eagle envisions.

  6. #7656
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    Quote Originally Posted by KNIGHT OF THE LAKE View Post
    You just justified killing prisoners of war, something good characters like Robb Stark found abhorrent , as okay because they didn’t bend the knee and could be considered evil. Well all those people came in because Cersei turned them against Dany. They were defying Dany and choosing Cersei. Same as Tarly. Tarly may have been a sword of Cersei but those people were a shield. Again if you’re going to justify death by people choosing to be used in Cersei’s cause even when they aren’t a threat..... we’ll there you go
    Medieval societies don't really have rules of engagement like we do today, prisoners were kept alive not out of some sense of morals but because they were valuable bargaining chips that could be ransomed for hefty sums later on. However, this was really only applicable because of the nature of feudal warfare which was small scale and typically revolved around petty land disputes rather than some cataclysmic clash of civilizations. When such conflicts did happen, like during the Crusades, prisoners were butchered en masse without much of a second thought.

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    Quote Originally Posted by remydat View Post
    Again they were not a shield. They did not fight for Cersei and Cersei could have been killed without harming them.

    Explain in your own words why these people had to die in order to kill Cersei because a shield means you need to get past the shield to kill the target.

    Until you can explain exactly why their deaths were necessary to kill Cersei then they were not shields and the narrative failed.
    Yes they were. Cersei told them all that Dany was the evil Dragon Queen who would kill them and ruin their land and that they should come under her to be protected under the Lannister regime. What was the argument Cersei made to Tarly? That Dany was a foreign queen who would come and destroy everything and Tarly should join her.

    When Tarly was killed he was no more a threat to her than those people. The battle was over and they had given up.

    Answer this: why did you believe Dany wouldn’t burn a city when she threatened to burn every city she’s ever been to or talked about the whole show?

    Did you defend Cersei killing Missandei? She was a prisoner loyal to Dany who in her last words defied Cersei making it pretty clear she wouldn’t bend to Cersei? How does that make her different than Tarly? It doesn’t. Or are you going to defend her beheading?

    You’re making justifications based off who you like more. That much I clear.

  8. #7658
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    Quote Originally Posted by brettc1 View Post
    GRRM makes each volume as long as the whole Lord of the Rings, so I am not too worried. He covered a massive amount in A Dance of Dragons. [/spoil]
    No. No he didn't.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Theleviathan View Post
    No. No he didn't.
    This. He did a lot of character work, but as far as plot advancement? He basically got Tyrion into Mereen. He had Jon dealing with politics in the NW and getting stabbed. He had Dany dealing with Mereen falling apart and eventually her getting captured by Dothraki.

    He basically just had half of what occurred in season 5

    Plotwise the last two book need to cover

    -Jon’s resurrection
    -the final word on Stannis
    -the war with Ramsay to take Winterfell
    -Everything that happens in Winterfell after that
    -Dany defeating the Khals and returning to Mereen
    -Dany solving the Meerenese knot
    -Dany and Tyrion meeting
    -Dany finally sailing to Westeros
    -the completion of Arya’s training and however she decides to leave
    -the Jeyne Poole and Theon exploits
    -Victarion Greyjoy journey to Mereen and his plans to marry Dany
    -whatever the hell Euron’s crazy dragonbinding plot will lead
    -Brienne leading to Jamie to Lady Stoneheart
    -sometype of resolution to the Stoneheart plotline
    -Doran’s reaction to Quentyn’s death and how he modified his plots
    -Arianne’s story and if she ever hooks up with fAegon
    -How the whole Aegon/Griff storyline plays out

    Then presumably
    -Jon and Dany meeting and hooking up
    -Jon alerting the realm to the threat of the Others
    -Dany’s various battles in Westeros
    -A final war with the Others
    -A resolution to to the war for the Iron Throne
    -Presumably evil Dany
    -the ending
    Last edited by KNIGHT OF THE LAKE; 05-21-2019 at 06:41 AM.

  10. #7660
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    Quote Originally Posted by remydat View Post
    Dany probably doesnt need saving if Jon stayed dead. It was his stupidity in wanting to convince Cersei that lead to Viserion being killed and his stupidity in telling Sansa that led to the betrayals that helped break Dany.
    The thing is, it wasn't JUST Cersi that needing convincing about the Night King. Dany herself didn't believe it until she saw the undead army with her own eyes. Jon was needed to convince everyone the threat was real, and for MOST people seeing them with their own eyes was frankly the only way to accomplish that. It came with a price, but it got the job done.

    As far as telling Sansa of his secret... in honestly it IS his secret to tell. He can tell anyone he wants, it's not like he needs her permission. Yes, the secret does end up turning all of Danys closest advisors against her... but the fact that they turned against her in the first place tells you something. They didn't think she was the right person to sit on the throne anyways... they just thought she was better than Cersi. If they truelly believed in Dany, then Jons secret wouldn't have mattered since he didn't want the throne anyways.

  11. #7661
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    Quote Originally Posted by remydat View Post
    What people saw coming was Cersei putting people in the Red Keep and Dany burning it down to kill her and in doing so killing the civilians. That is what the narrative set up ie that the civilians would be used as human shields. That was Cersei's plan.

    In the end though they were not used as shields because Dany could have killed Cersei without killing them. So the narrative fails because it sets up a premise as civilians dying as human shields but then gives us civiliams dying for shits and giggles.
    I can tell you for a fact that plenty of people have been debating whether or not Dany would be the big bad at the end of GoT for years. I've had dozens and dozens of conversations about that. I'm not saying EVERYONE necessarily saw it coming of course... and they frankly wouldn't want everyone to see it coming. But they did a good enough job planting that seed in the narrative to the point where it was something which had been discussed long long before this season first aired.

  12. #7662
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    Quote Originally Posted by KNIGHT OF THE LAKE View Post
    Yes they were. Cersei told them all that Dany was the evil Dragon Queen who would kill them and ruin their land and that they should come under her to be protected under the Lannister regime. What was the argument Cersei made to Tarly? That Dany was a foreign queen who would come and destroy everything and Tarly should join her.

    When Tarly was killed he was no more a threat to her than those people. The battle was over and they had given up.

    I’m sorry but your just being hypocritical to justify your stance.

    Answer this: why did you believe Dany wouldn’t burn a city when she threatened to burn every city she’s ever been to or talked about the whole show?

    Again I notice you and many people defending Dany are hilariously flippant when it comes to murdering people. Did you defend Cersei killing Missandei? She was a prisoner loyal to Dany who in her last words defied Cersei making it pretty clear she wouldn’t bend to Cersei? How does that make her different than Tarly? It doesn’t. Or are you going to defend her beheading?

    You’re making justifications based off who you like more. That much I clear.
    It doesnt matter what they were told. It matters whether they served as human shields which they did not.

    If you can kill someone without harming them then they are not shields.

    I believe Dany would burn a city but only if it was necessary to kill Cersei and win. The narrative fails because Dany burned a city when she already won and when Cersei could have been killed.

    Your argument is nonsensical. Dany didnt suggest she would burn shit for fun. She would burn shit in order to take the city and win but in this case she already won the city.
    It's hard for me to listen to someone not in my position. A caterpillar can't relate to what an eagle envisions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    I can tell you for a fact that plenty of people have been debating whether or not Dany would be the big bad at the end of GoT for years. I've had dozens and dozens of conversations about that. I'm not saying EVERYONE necessarily saw it coming of course... and they frankly wouldn't want everyone to see it coming. But they did a good enough job planting that seed in the narrative to the point where it was something which had been discussed long long before this season first aired.
    It’s been a popular prediction before the show was a thing. Her story has a lot of commonalities with eventual tyrants.

  14. #7664
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    It’s hard to say the civilians were human shields when Dany’s dragon surgically destroyed 80% of the cities defenses and even forced them to surrender without a single civilian casualty.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PwrdOn View Post
    Medieval societies don't really have rules of engagement like we do today, prisoners were kept alive not out of some sense of morals but because they were valuable bargaining chips that could be ransomed for hefty sums later on. However, this was really only applicable because of the nature of feudal warfare which was small scale and typically revolved around petty land disputes rather than some cataclysmic clash of civilizations. When such conflicts did happen, like during the Crusades, prisoners were butchered en masse without much of a second thought.
    All the "winning" sides went on to sack towns and pillage and such.

    ain't no "good" people in medieval war.

    The North was right there with dany, the unsullied, and Dothraki killing civilians, raping,a nd pillaging
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