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Thread: Game of Thrones

  1. #7816
    Extraordinary Member The Shape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starter Set View Post
    Why anyone on the face of westeros would want democracy though?

    It just doesn't come out like that, it's an idea who has to grow, mind sets have to change. You don't go somewhere who hasn't already a democratic culture and just impose it. (as recent history has shown)
    The election of Lord Commander is a democratic progress. So it isn’t like the concept is new to them, they are just power hungry feudal lords who want to stay in power and see the common folk as livestock, hence why they were compared to dogs and horses.

    Quote Originally Posted by brettc1 View Post
    People are idiots. Given the chance they'd have voted the High Sparrow in as King.

  2. #7817
    Incredible Member Mr Cochese's Avatar
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    If the lords had agreed to democracy I was ready to blow up the entire internet.

  3. #7818
    The Forever Walker remydat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theleviathan View Post
    They had fears about what she would do. That extra caveat you added there doesn't make any sense. It's a shallow interpretation that is so literal it deems your analysis deeply flawed. Frankly, it's clearly not correct.

    The fears about what she would do is why Tyrion, before the battle, implored her to agree to call off the attack when the bells ring. That is him fearing for those people and trying to gain some assurance from her that she is still thinking about their safety. She gives it and then goes and ignores it anyway.

    They feared the scope of the damage she'd inflict, including the deaths of innocents. I don't know how you take anything else from the actions of Varys or Tyrion prior to the battle. (That is not, for the record, to say this was well portrayed or written. Only that your needlessly narrow view on this is not supported by what was shown or said)
    Not a narrow view at all or shallow. Collateral damage in defeating an enemy and mass murder for fun are two entirely different things.

    Also her flat out lying to Tyrion is also out of character. Tyrion appeared more concerned for his family as immediately after he goes to free Jamie and instructs hin to try and convince Cersei to surrender and ring the bells. So it was in part an attempt to give them the opportunity to escape. So no dont think mass murder for fun was on his mind at all. If he actually thought that he would not have betrayed Varys and there would be no need for them to have Dany flat out like to him.

    Tyrion was quite content to allow his mass murdering sister escape punishment for all ber crimes.
    Last edited by remydat; 05-22-2019 at 05:05 AM.
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  4. #7819
    The Forever Walker remydat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    I'm not saying viewers didn't necessarily forsee it to the degree we saw... I'm saying Vary and Tyrion didn't. Again, many viewers I have spoken to predicted she'd be the big bad years ago. But Vary and Tyrion probably didn't think in terms of the show needing a big bad for a TV show. They were simply sensing that she was starting to lose it. Problem being a queen with a dragon and the most powerful army in the world is a pretty big problem.

    And loyalty is frankly why they were killed. Dany didn't believe they would be loyal to her and her vision of the world, so she made sure they weren't going to be a part of it. She was expecting them to turn on Cersi and support her like what happened in the past... again, I think her messiah complex at work there. The Bells weren't enough. She wanted more, and didn't get it. YOU may have interpreted ringing a bell as them turning on Cersi, but for Dany that was far too little too late.
    Again I have no problem with her being the big bad. Didnt like Dany and was rooting for her to die. That doesnt mean the show executed it well. You can foreshadow something and still suck in how you execute it.

    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    It wasn't for fun... it was about power. She couldn't rule with love, so she needed to rule through fear. She basically told that to Jon before the battle. Again, her reasoning was flawed as it was coming from the mind of a crazy person at that point, but she wasn't killing them just for kicks. She was trying to build a new world, and if they weren't win her then they were against her. And bells or no bells, she dam well knew these people weren't going to embrace her as their queen.
    Nope it was for fun. She already had the power when they rung the bells. She already had their fear when she obliterated the Golden Company and Cersei's armies with a single dragon and without really losing a single soldier.
    Last edited by remydat; 05-22-2019 at 05:06 AM.
    It's hard for me to listen to someone not in my position. A caterpillar can't relate to what an eagle envisions.

  5. #7820
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    Quote Originally Posted by PwrdOn View Post
    A big part of Dany's appeal was that she was promising to change the way things were done, albeit in a pretty extreme and ruthless way, whereas the rest of the cast was mostly just concerned with putting everything back the way it was. Historically, major wars and climate events have brought about pretty monumental societal changes, though they probably were not as obvious at the time as they are to us in hindsight, if anything Game of Thrones undersold the impact of its own plot and went with far too conservative of an ending.
    Dany was “saying” that. However her actual goal was just reestablishing the old Targaryen regime back in power. Ultimately the story was prior to the events of the book “old bad king gets ousted by new ruler, new ruler dies and his children and wife are awful, then old king’s daughter takes back throne, only to be proven to be just as bad and is slayed by the true heir and the country works out a new way”

  6. #7821
    Ultimate Member MindofShadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KNIGHT OF THE LAKE View Post
    Dany was “saying” that. However her actual goal was just reestablishing the old Targaryen regime back in power.
    I wouldn't even say that. Her actual goal was putting HERSELF in power.

    If she just wanted the old Targaryen regime back in power, she woulda bent the knee to the true Targaryen heir.

    She may have been somewhat altruistic initially... but power corrupts + a side of incest caused mental illness
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  7. #7822
    Invincible Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by remydat View Post
    Again I have no problem with her being the big bad. Didnt like Dany and was rooting for her to die. That doesnt mean the show executed it well. You can foreshadow something and still suck in how you execute it.



    Nope it was for fun. She already had the power when they rung the bells. She already had their fear when she obliterated the Golden Company and Cersei's armies with a single dragon and without really losing a single soldier.
    Sure she had fear when she destroyed the golden company. But I promise you people feared her a hell of a lot more after she killed everyone else too. If you thought that was a look of fun on her face we definately interpreted Emilias acting very differently.

  8. #7823
    The Forever Walker remydat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    Sure she had fear when she destroyed the golden company. But I promise you people feared her a hell of a lot more after she killed everyone else too. If you thought that was a look of fun on her face we definately interpreted Emilias acting very differently.
    My use of the term fun is meant tonconvey that it served no purpose in winning the battle. It was not meant to be taken literally.

    No she had fear when she defeated the GC. She had hate when she masaacred people hence why her lover murdered her. That is a pretty obvious outcome when you butcher people for no good reason..
    It's hard for me to listen to someone not in my position. A caterpillar can't relate to what an eagle envisions.

  9. #7824
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    Quote Originally Posted by brettc1 View Post
    People are idiots. Given the chance they'd have voted the High Sparrow in as King.

    Also information doesn’t travel fast and it’s not always accurate. We aren’t dealing with a well informed electorate. Most anyone besides the North would have seen Ned as a traitor and Joffrey as the rightful heir and boy king. Also Joff was an ass behind the scenes but the people didn’t really know it.

  10. #7825
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post
    I wouldn't even say that. Her actual goal was putting HERSELF in power.

    If she just wanted the old Targaryen regime back in power, she woulda bent the knee to the true Targaryen heir.

    She may have been somewhat altruistic initially... but power corrupts + a side of incest caused mental illness
    The funny thing is that there was plenty of in fighting amongst the Targs and the true heir didn’t always inherit the throne. It was also fluid. Aerys was considering wiping out Rheagar’s claim for Visery’s for instance and their were various shenanigans immediately after Aegon died.

  11. #7826
    Astonishing Member PwrdOn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KNIGHT OF THE LAKE View Post
    Dany was “saying” that. However her actual goal was just reestablishing the old Targaryen regime back in power. Ultimately the story was prior to the events of the book “old bad king gets ousted by new ruler, new ruler dies and his children and wife are awful, then old king’s daughter takes back throne, only to be proven to be just as bad and is slayed by the true heir and the country works out a new way”
    Most people don't want power just for the sake of having power, they want power because they have some kind of idea of how they want the world to be and want the means to achieve that. Whether or not they actually do that when they get that power is another matter. Conversely, people who are not ambitious or power hungry usually don't have ideas except for "put everything back the way it was" which is why putting these kinds of people in charge usually doesn't work out, no matter how nice it might seem to have the dutiful but reluctant public servant as a leader.

  12. #7827
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    Quote Originally Posted by PwrdOn View Post
    Most people don't want power just for the sake of having power, they want power because they have some kind of idea of how they want the world to be and want the means to achieve that. Whether or not they actually do that when they get that power is another matter. Conversely, people who are not ambitious or power hungry usually don't have ideas except for "put everything back the way it was" which is why putting these kinds of people in charge usually doesn't work out, no matter how nice it might seem to have the dutiful but reluctant public servant as a leader.
    True but most aren’t laying claim to power as being the presumed heir to a former dynasty.

  13. #7828
    Invincible Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by remydat View Post
    My use of the term fun is meant tonconvey that it served no purpose in winning the battle. It was not meant to be taken literally.

    No she had fear when she defeated the GC. She had hate when she masaacred people hence why her lover murdered her. That is a pretty obvious outcome when you butcher people for no good reason..
    Tactically no, it served no purpose. But she's a mad queen that wanted to instill fear when she came to the conclusion that the people wouldn't love her.

    And again, I don't dispute that she already had fear. I'm just saying they feared her a heck of a lot more after she was done. But a lot probably hated her too ... no arguement tbere.

  14. #7829
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    Quote Originally Posted by KNIGHT OF THE LAKE View Post
    Also information doesn’t travel fast and it’s not always accurate. We aren’t dealing with a well informed electorate. Most anyone besides the North would have seen Ned as a traitor and Joffrey as the rightful heir and boy king. Also Joff was an ass behind the scenes but the people didn’t really know it.
    Good point.

    Though didn't someone throw feces at Joffrey at one point? I think they had a pretty good idea what type a dude he was. I don't really remember the circumstance though.

  15. #7830
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    I wouldn’t call Dany Mad. People are just saying that because we keep hearing about the Mad King. Aerys wasn’t like Dany. Aerys has no ambition. He wanted to stay in his castle and not be assassinated and produce healthy heirs. He was obsessed that people were conspiring against him and wanted to prove he was somewhat capable. He became a recluse who was so afraid of the blades in the Iron Throne that he wouldn’t cut his nails or hair. He was legit batshit by the end.

    Dany was just a tyrant/conquerer who embraced her destructive nature and wasn’t going to stop until she was on top and had everyone submitted so she could lead the world the way she thought best. She might have even been a decent ruler after she stopped killing her enemies. It was just that she clearly was going to run over the world and kill everyone who stood in her way..

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