Game of Thrones

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

I'm curious as to where the Dothraki think they could go. Seems like they'd prefer somewhere warm, like Dorne. But they would need a new leader to get them there. Maybe back to Essos?

I just assume they are going back to the Dothraki Sea

[Variant]

1. If Grey Worm insists on Jon's death then Dorne and Iron Islands appeared to be on board with that and thus that is why they would be allies. They would agree with Grey Worm whole Sansa and the North would not.

2. Dorne being in KL with Unsullied means if the North attacks Yarra can attack their rear. Go read up on WWI & II to understand why being caught between two armies is generally not a good idea. Euron built like a 1,000 ships in a short period of time. Iron Isles can easily rebuild their ships.

3. Dorne is going to try and capture a city because their allies in this scenario already have control of the city. The city is in the hands of Grey Worm. There is nothing to capture. Just something they need to keep.

4. Dorne is not surrounded by hostile houses. Stormlands are to the south and as I noted I believe Gendry would stay out of the war because he owes his title to Dany. Then you have the Reach under Bronn but no one in the Reach owes Bronn any loyalty. He is a former sellsword and murderer who just got his title so I see no reason for him to get involved. Being the cunning guy he is, he sits it out and just makes peace with the winners. Westerlands are also to the East but again Tyrion has no armies as they all died protecting Cersei. Thus, you really only have the Riverlands to the Northwest with a weak ruler and they have the same problem as the North. If they go to Kings Landing then the Iron Islands are even closer to the Riverlands than they are to the North as they used to be one Kingdom prior to Aegon's conquest. So if the Riverlands commit to taking King's Landing then the Iron Islands rape and pillage their lands.

5. Your claim was people would hate the Unsullied because they are foreigners. I am saying the North are now foreigners and rapists to boot. That is not strawmanning. That is me telling you the North may in fact be in a worse position than the Unsulled relative to the local populace. The Unsullied did not slaughter people who surrendered. That was the Dothraki and the North. The Unsullied killed soldiers. Soldiers who ultimately picked up their swords and fought after the Unsullied attacked. The point here is the North are just as guilty as the Unsullied if not moreso. They raped and pillaged as the city was burning so if people are upset with the Unsullied they are also upset with the North.

6. Dorne doesn't need to be a naval power if they are aligned with the Iron Islands. Iron Islands can provide the ships as Euron proved. Iron Islands can also build ships faster than anyone else as Euron proved.

7. Yes people can be trained but while that is going on, KL will be getting rebuilt, Iron Islands will be building their ships so if Dorne and Iron Islands control the seas and KL, good luck trying to take KL back. And yes I already said the Vale, North and Riverlands would be in an alliance. I just to see them getting much more than that and the Riverlands are a bit of an issue because Edmure is a bitch. We saw that at the council where Sansa embarrassed him. So is he really going to commit forces to taking KL when doing so leaves the Riverlands exposed for the Iron Islands to attack his rear? Not seeing it. He will feign support but probably be not risk Iron Islands attacking Riverlands while his armies are at KL just to assist a niece who already made him look stupid in front of the other Lords.

D&D story sucks hence why I am discussing other stuff. If you don't wish to engage then don't. No one is forcing you.

1. What are you talking about? We’ve all seen the episode, the Dorne guy doesn’t talk. If anything the guy just looks bored during the entire meeting. Yarra was the only one of the westrosi that wanted Jon executed. You’re entire premise is based on one scene which gives absolutely no evidence they’re in agreement.

2. 3. 4. I’m a student of history. And for Dorne to take a city which lands are surrounded by their rivals, which is far away from their own land and powerbase makes absolutely no sense. The ironborn literally fight a civil war, the vast majority of their fleet are gone. Now if you want to use the show’s respawn/construction rate. I’ll apply that same rule to the other great houses as well. Dorne at least in the books, have always been pragmatic on their strengths and weaknesses. Dorne’s strength lies in defending the mountain pass close to their own lands. Why would they take King's Landing when it'll just create more conflict between them and the other houses. Not to mention they’ll never be able to hold it.

It doesn’t even seem worth the trouble considering the city is a half-burned ruin that's scarcly populated. No one House is going to be able to rebuild that city on their own. It’s far more realistic that in a indepedent 7 kingdom scenario. The City itself given it's geographic location, will be an independent state with every house supporting commerce and being able to do business there.

5. I don’t know why you’re having trouble understanding this. The unsullied/Dothraki army will be occupying them, the north won't be. The North has no interest in ruling over them. How the population regards the Unsullied/Dothraki is far more prevalent than their feelings in regards to the north.

6. The vast majority of their fleet was burning in the last episodes. And to construct ships, you do need workers in the city to do that, and most of them were burned alive.

7. Who’s the best player of the game of thrones that is still alive in the end. I’d say Sansa and/or Tyrion (Although I do feel Tyrion acted stupid this entire season). I can easily see Sansa taking advantage of the Burning of King’s landing, spreading messager birds to every corner of the seven kingdoms of this unsullied/dothraki army burning the capitol and killing women and children. And before you say, “hey, didn’t the northmen take part in that too?” She’s simply spread the story that Jon tried to stop it by killing the Mad queen, and was executed by the unsullied/dothraki - Jon made a sacrifice and this foreign army killed the true heir to throne, etc etc. Thus turning him into a martyr. It’s about creating your own narrative. What does Greyworm know about statecraft? What does he know about politics? He’s a solider, he follows orders, he knows about battle and little else. He doesn't have Dany anymore to play the game and no dragon. If he plays the game he'll be beaten like cherokee drum. I can easily invision a scenario that the Stark/Tully/Arryn create an alliance with various western lords and houses in the Reach. And considering Gendry is in love in Arya, I don't think it'll be difficult for Sansa/Arya to convince him.

I wholeheartedly agree that D&D's story sucks, but you're scenario makes even less sense. The whole part about the Dorne wanting to take King's landing. There's no logical reasoning behind that and I don't understand why you keep insisting that is the case when's there's nothing in the show and books to support it.

[remydat]

Ok let's set some parameters here.

I agree Dorne is not a slam dunk to join. I also agree they didn't necessarily walk into the council meeting with the idea of taking KL. I am saying if Grey Worm insists on Jon's death that they may side with Grey Worm as they were aligned with Dany. When Ellaria Sand left Dorne, it stands to reason she would leave in power someone that was aligned with her. Obviously the dude didn't speak because the writers didn't want him too but it would be stupid for Ellaria to leave in charge someone who didn't want some measure of revenge against the Lannisters as they would be at risk of usurping her power.

You are overselling the point about rivals. The Reach was ruled by the Tyrells who sided with Dany and whom the Lannisters killed. You are presuming they side with Sansa but that makes little sense. Not only did the Lannisters kill the Tyrells but now Tyrion gave their lands to his former sellsword and murderer. It is completely illogical to think all those people in the Reach just blindly follow a Lannister lackey.

As for Stormlands, Gendry is a bastard who was legitimized by a woman that had every reason to kill him. If he goes against the people defending her then you can expect resistance as people surmise this is why bastards should not rule because they have no sense of loyalty or honor. So no I don't see him moving against KL. Arya rejected him and now you want him to risk his lordship for a woman that would rather sail into the unknown than be with him? Nah not buying it.

Riverlands are ruled by a weak dude just embarrassed by his niece. They can't attack KL without exposing their lands to Iron Islands so no I don't think they do anything aside for nominally support the North and stay in their lands.

As for the Rock, Tyrion is basically responsible for the death of his father, brother and sister. I suspect those in the Rock don't really hold him in high esteem. So no I think his ability to rally people to his cause is limited.

As for KL's, on one had you say the City is scarcely populated. On the other you say they won't like the Dothraki and Unsullied. Well which is it? Can't really have it both ways. Don't know which people are left to be upset about the Unsullied and they will have Dornish support as that is the basis for the scenario.

Euron didn't build his ships from workers in King's Landing. Yarra still has her ships because she returned to the Iron Islands after she was rescued and sat out the Battle of Winterfell and King's landing. So now that she has secured the Iron Islands, she is the only real naval power left and can build more ships faster than everyone else because that is her people's specialty. Iron Islands can rule the seas for the foreseeable future.

Not sure why you think anyone gives a **** about what an independent North says. Sansa cares so much about KL and the people of the 7 Kingdoms that she declared independence, lol. Also she doesn't really have people to really for the reasons noted above. This is less a political battle and more a military one. The place is fractured and most of the people of the South dislike the North and will remember Sansa as the spoiled brat that at one time wanted to bear Joffery's kids. They have zero reason to respect or listen to her. She also has no military prowess to speak of. She was cowering in the crypts when Dany was fighting for her and her people.

Sansa's best play would be revealing Jon is a Targ but the idiot Jon probably still won't want to assume the throne to save himself. Don't think she gets anywhere with the other stuff you are talking about because again fundamentally she chose to abandon the Kingdom when she declared the North independent. So it's Jon as Aegon or bust for her really.

So again this is just speculation. I would agree Dorne is not a slam dunk in my scenario. However, if they did join with Grey Worm and Iron Island, Sansa's position is weak because Gendry, Bronn, Tyrion, and Tully have their own issues to sort out.

[Variant]

Ok let's set some parameters here.

What parameters are we setting here? You’re making your own scenario here and I’m making mine. We’re fan fic-ing at this point.

I agree Dorne is not a slam dunk to join. I also agree they didn't necessarily walk into the council meeting with the idea of taking KL. I am saying if Grey Worm insists on Jon's death that they may side with Grey Worm as they were aligned with Dany. When Ellaria Sand left Dorne, it stands to reason she would leave in power someone that was aligned with her. Obviously the dude didn't speak because the writers didn't want him too but it would be stupid for Ellaria to leave in charge someone who didn't want some measure of revenge against the Lannisters as they would be at risk of usurping her power.

We have no idea who the new prince of Dorne is, for all we know there was a power vacuum and another lord got support and took control. Ellaria and the Sand Snakes are dead, who know how much influence died with them.

You are overselling the point about rivals. The Reach was ruled by the Tyrells who sided with Dany and whom the Lannisters killed. You are presuming they side with Sansa but that makes little sense. Not only did the Lannisters kill the Tyrells but now Tyrion gave their lands to his former sellsword and murderer. It is completely illogical to think all those people in the Reach just blindly follow a Lannister lackey.

I’m not overselling at all. There’s eminity between the Reach and Dorne that goes back generations. This has been addressed in both the books and the show repeatedly. Now we did get an alliance between Olenna and the Ellaria mostly putting aside differences because they wanting to get revenge on Cersei. But considering all those principle characters are dead. The Tyrells are dead, Sand snakes are dead, Dany is dead, all but one Lannister is dead. In a situation were there’s a power vacumm. I totally see Sansa and Tyrion take advantage of that situation better than the Unsullied who lack any sort of political savvy.

As for Stormlands, Gendry is a bastard who was legitimized by a woman that had every reason to kill him. If he goes against the people defending her then you can expect resistance as people surmise this is why bastards should not rule because they have no sense of loyalty or honor. So no I don't see him moving against KL. Arya rejected him and now you want him to risk his lordship for a woman that would rather sail into the unknown than be with him? Nah not buying it.

Dany is dead. Who’s defending her exactly? What is there to defend? What are the Unsullied still fighting for at this point in Westeros if they decide to stay? No doubt why they decided to leave. Dany is dead, her legacy is half burned city where women and children were burned alive. Now let me make clear, I HATE what D&D did to her character, but it is now TV canon. In GoT land she's going to be known as the Mad Queen that literally burned down the city. And I don't think Gendry or any decent person is going to be sympathetic to that. It wouldn't take much for Arya to get Gendery on side, there's too much history between those two.

Riverlands are ruled by a weak dude just embarrassed by his niece. They can't attack KL without exposing their lands to Iron Islands so no I don't think they do anything aside for nominally support the North and stay in their lands.

Oh I agree Edmure is weak, which is why Sansa would be ruling the Riverlands all but name. I think she’d prefer it that way. Better to be the power behind the scenes – pretty sure someone said that in Game of Thrones

As for the Rock, Tyrion is basically responsible for the death of his father, brother and sister. I suspect those in the Rock don't really hold him in high esteem. So no I think his ability to rally people to his cause is limited.

I don't think they'll have much of a choice. Tyrion by right and succession is the head of the family. By all accounts he's hand of the King and the lord of Casterly Rock by the end of the show. Let's not kid ourselves here, none of main Lannisters were really held up in high esteem. Cercei and their father were not loved, they were feared more than anything. And she did blow up her relatives (Kevan and Lancel) with wildfire - I don't think that made her popular back at home. Tyrion's crimes are really not that much worse than the rest of his family. I think it's really unfair to hold him responsible for Jaime's death, it was Jaimie's decision to go back to King's landing. Tryion tried to save Jaimie (and even Cersie) knowing he was going to be executed for doing so. Out of this mess of a season I did find that scene between Tyrion and Jaime quite touching and genuinely heartfelt.

As for KL's, on one had you say the City is scarcely populated. On the other you say they won't like the Dothraki and Unsullied. Well which is it? Can't really have it both ways. Don't know which people are left to be upset about the Unsullied and they will have Dornish support as that is the basis for the scenario.

City is scarcely populated because people got burned alive, but the lands around King’s landing still have people living and other townships. No doubt there would be many refugees from the city all over the area. I thought that point was fairly obvious. It's one of the reasons why the Unsullied position in remaining is so tenuous, because survivers will spread the word what happened.

Euron didn't build his ships from workers in King's Landing. Yarra still has her ships because she returned to the Iron Islands after she was rescued and sat out the Battle of Winterfell and King's landing. So now that she has secured the Iron Islands, she is the only real naval power left and can build more ships faster than everyone else because that is her people's specialty. Iron Islands can rule the seas for the foreseeable future.

The majority of the ironborn fleet is destroyed. If she can rebuild then everyone else can rebuild too. In fact at this point in time the reach would be the predominant naval power in westeros. Not the Ironborn.

Not sure why you think anyone gives a **** about what an independent North says.

Again, I feel we’re just going to around in circles to the ends of time. Not sure why you think anyone gives a **** what Greyworm says or thinks? What's his influence in westeros compared to 3 great houses?

Sansa's best play would be revealing Jon is a Targ but the idiot Jon probably still won't want to assume the throne to save himself. Don't think she gets anywhere with the other stuff you are talking about because again fundamentally she chose to abandon the Kingdom when she declared the North independent. So it's Jon as Aegon or bust for her really.

Um, the scenario I’m talking about is that Jon got killed by Greyworm – that’s what starts the conflict. We’re fan fic-ing dude, Jon death being used to create a narrative (which is kind of true), and Greyworm doesn’t leave. If Jon is still alive we get the same ending from the show.

So again this is just speculation. I would agree Dorne is not a slam dunk in my scenario. However, if they did join with Grey Worm and Iron Island, Sansa's position is weak because Gendry, Bronn, Tyrion, and Tully have their own issues to sort out.

Sorry, don’t see Dorne joining them. And if we’re going by D&D canon, Dorne is not a significant player in a the grand scheme of things. Let's face it, in the show they were rather useless, you’re making them out to be this force to be reckon with and they’ve never been depicted as such. Heck, even viewers kind of derided and mocked them if anything, most were glad their sub-plot in the show was over. Even in the books so far, they really haven't been able to achieve anything, in fact they're hit with significant set-backs in regards to their plans.

[Emperor-of-Dragons]

I mean, we could be here all day talking about the the lackluster armies, and military strategies in GoT lol.

This is 100% true.

The Tyrell army for example. That's why I think people shouldn't bring up book continuity when it comes to armies and logistics and lore

[Emperor-of-Dragons]

[Johnny Peril]

Having Bran as King is like having Spock or Data captain the Enterprise.

[stargazer01]

Having Bran as King is like having Spock or Data captain the Enterprise.

but at least we know Spock and Data and they are very capable Starfleet officers, unlike Bran who is too mysterious and even more robotic than Data.

[Punisher007]

Bran did nothing all season, he's one of the most useless magical beings ever. Him becoming King was a joke, and Tyrion's "logic" for it was laughable. Also Tyrion was a prisoner and hasn't made a good decision/idea in like two seasons now, WTF is everyone listening to him at this point?

[motherofpearl1]

I loved Bran's character, but they spoiled him by making him a soulless robot.
The young man he was would make a good king.

So would Tyrion, frankly.

[Punisher007]

They needed to do more with him as a character if they were going to pull that ending. As it stands, it feels forced. Sansa ruling in the North, that I can buy. But Bran, at this point, nah.

[Midvillian1322]

I loved Bran's character, but they spoiled him by making him a soulless robot.
The young man he was would make a good king.

So would Tyrion, frankly.

Tyrion is despised by too many. But looks LIKE bran is letting Tyrion rules mostly anyway. The kids only half there

[Punisher007]

Given Tyrion's track record in Seasons 7 and 8, I'm not so sure that that's a good thing honestly.

Really it seems like everyone and anyone who interacted with Dany suddenly lost at least 40% of their IQ points instantly.

[Captain M]

Bran did nothing all season, he's one of the most useless magical beings ever. Him becoming King was a joke, and Tyrion's "logic" for it was laughable. Also Tyrion was a prisoner and hasn't made a good decision/idea in like two seasons now, WTF is everyone listening to him at this point?

Bran did nothing ever period

[Punisher007]

Gendry being king would have made more sense at this point honestly.