Game of Thrones

[dupersuper]

Perhaps it's inevitable in a TV adaptation, but I think this sacrifice of ambiguity

I never thought Tyrion was very ambiguous in the books...

[Nyssane]

I'm so glad the Craster girl got some revenge for all the crap the renegade crows did to her and her family. I imagine them going out into the wilderness and becoming sort of like witches... the old haggy wife certainly already looks the part.

[Legato]

This episode was one of the few times I've actually cheered for Jon Snow. Usually I'd have a indifferent opinion concerning him but I like that this season he's progressing pretty well to the point that I'm actually invested to the character.

[7thangel]

MTE. :/ The whole victim-kills-her-abuser was a small peace offering to their complete & total use of rape-as-bad-guy-characterization trope this season so far. Dunno if I can keep with the show really when this is their go-to. Laura Hudson of Wired expresses my thoughts on the matter pretty eloquently.

the whole craster rape keep was unnecessary. made worse by the rape threat of meera.

Incidentally, I guess Jaimie kind raping her was a non-issue to her I suspected it wouldn't be given all the context behind why it happened, their relationship, and a few other things. But I was thinking we'd get to see Cersi a little vulnerable in something not related to her children.

probably because they shot and played that scene like it wasn't rape, hence no fall out.

[Ramsay Snow]

This episode was one of the few times I've actually cheered for Jon Snow. Usually I'd have a indifferent opinion concerning him but I like that this season he's progressing pretty well to the point that I'm actually invested to the character.

I've always found him to be a likeable character. The viewer has sympathy for him due to his upbringing (Growing up a "bastard" and being openly hated by his stepmother), knowing what happened to the rest of his family, plus him becoming a Crow when not knowing the full scale of what that entails......Plus, people always harp on about how every character in GoT is morally gray, yet Jon Snow is one of the select few truly "good" people on the show.

the whole craster rape keep was unnecessary. made worse by the rape threat of meera.

I disagree.........It was no different than what Craster, himself, was doing, it was just on a larger scale due to the numbers, and we never saw Craster doing such on-screen.

The mutineers being shown to violate Craster's women showed how low they had become (Or already were). Plus, as George RR Martin has stated, things such as rape were a reality during those times.

[Legato]

I've always found him to be a likeable character. The viewer has sympathy for him due to his upbringing (Growing up a "bastard" and being openly hated by his stepmother), knowing what happened to the rest of his family, plus him becoming a Crow when not knowing the full scale of what that entails......Plus, people always harp on about how every character in GoT is morally gray, yet Jon Snow is one of the select few truly "good" people on the show.

And it actually pays off. It's nice to see a genuine good guy character get a victory in a world where if you're good then you die. Plus having a character like Jon Snow on the show gives the viewer a reason to continue watching.

Granted I'd still enjoy the show without him but I can see how having nothing but morally corrupt characters can turn some people off.

[7thangel]

I disagree.........It was no different than what Craster, himself, was doing, it was just on a larger scale due to the numbers, and we never saw Craster doing such on-screen.

The mutineers being shown to violate Craster's women showed how low they had become (Or already were). Plus, as George RR Martin has stated, things such as rape were a reality during those times.

rape is a reality now. and it's used for plot all the time. sometimes used well and other times, carelessly. and everything in-between.

we already know how far they've fallen, which in truth isn't that far, given who is sent to the wall. indiscriminate rape of nameless women and girls, in order to make them even more mustache twirling evil is nothing new and to me, serves nothing.

[Ramsay Snow]

rape is a reality now. and it's used for plot all the time. sometimes used well and other times, carelessly. and everything in-between.

we already know how far they've fallen, which in truth isn't that far, given who is sent to the wall. indiscriminate rape of nameless women and girls, in order to make them even more mustache twirling evil is nothing new and to me, serves nothing.

Various types are sent to the wall. You're stereotyping the Crows, that's very judgmental of you.

Rape isn't as commonplace now as it was during those times (Or even 50 years ago).

And you had no problem with Craster raping his own daughters, because it wasn't shown on-screen? I mean, hey, I guess as long as it's not shown on-screen, rape is OK.

[Donald]

Sansa will be fine unless she tries to escape or do something really stupid. Baelish isn't letting her out of his sight, and the Eyrie is impregnable by force.

Although I suppose it's possibly Lysa or Robin will do something, but I'm pretty certain Baelish will have eyes on her to keep her safe.

How about something smart? Marry the little weirdo, bump off Baelish & Lysa and take over the Eyrie. Put what she learned at King's Landing to practical use and avenge her father.

Didn't Cersi say she'd strangle Margaret in her bed if she called her sister again? Cozy up and then.....

[7thangel]

Various types are sent to the wall. You're stereotyping the Crows, that's very judgmental of you.

are you serious?

Rape isn't as commonplace now as it was during those times (Or even 50 years ago).

of course it is.

And you had no problem with Craster raping his own daughters, because it wasn't shown on-screen? I mean, hey, I guess as long as it's not shown on-screen, rape is OK.

i'm sorry, i didn't realize you knew me or my feelings about certain scenes in the show or in the book. nevermind that in that quote of mine that you used, i state that plots involving rape (or implied rape) can be used (and done) well.

it's also funny how i didn't take your disagreement with my opinion, and imply anything about you and what you think is okay. but thanks. at least i know not to bother with debating this with you.

[Ramsay Snow]

are you serious?

Absolutely.

of course it is.

Nope, it isn't.

i'm sorry, i didn't realize you knew me or my feelings about certain scenes in the show or in the book. nevermind that in that quote of mine that you used, i state that plots involving rape (or implied rape) can be used (and done) well.

And the mutineer plot involving rape was done well.

Regardless, apology accepted.

it's also funny how i didn't take your disagreement with my opinion, and imply anything about you and what you think is okay. but thanks. at least i know not to bother with debating this with you.

Because you know you're wrong.

[5Eyes]

Except spoilers:

The Hound isn't dead if you can read between the lines in the books. It's been implied that he's very much alive. Who else is going to kill FrankenMountain? Guaranteed the Hound still has a role to play in this series.

end of spoilers

The thing about Games of Thrones.. what you think should happen usually doesn't .. For instance I didn't think Joffrey would die the way he did , at the time of reading the book I was sure one of the younger ones would kill him Arya was my bet at the time.. Since the last book hasn't come out yet I'll re-read the older books and see if your hypothesis is a possibility ..

[Coin Biter]

I never thought Tyrion was very ambiguous in the books...

Well, Tyrion's chapters are written from his point of view - he's a sympathetic character, scorned by his family, intelligent, and witty, and importantly shows empathy to some of the more likable protagonists in the series (such as Jon).

However, if you look at his actions from another point of view, he:

spoilers:

Projects his romantic fantasies upon someone who clearly does not show them (book Shae, who is a very different character from show Shae), putting her in immense danger, which is pitiable and understandable given his awful childhood, but far from the romance of the show (one of the show's weakest elements, to be frank). He murders a musician who knows about the relationship to protect himself. He threatens his nephew with rape. He clears the outskirts of King's Landing of the houses he has built for good strategic reasons, but is surprised by the dislike of the populace. A classic example of the change in character would be the wedding night between Tyrion and Sansa - in the book, he's physically attracted to her, and when she makes it plain that she will never want to sleep with him, he certainly doesn't force her, but states the bitter line: "Well, that is why the gods made whores for imps like me". In contrast, in the show, he states "And so my watch begins". I'm not suggesting Tyrion is a monster - he clearly isn't, he has empathy. He's closer to his father - an extremely intelligent man who is always able to justify his actions by reference to necessity, but is far more motivated by his insecurities and emotions than he would care to acknowledge. Tywin is entirely ruthless of course - Tyrion's not at that level, and may never be, but the key is, he has the potential to be. Show Tyrion never demonstrates that potential.

end of spoilers

[Daenarys Stormborn]

And it actually pays off. It's nice to see a genuine good guy character get a victory in a world where if you're good then you die. Plus having a character like Jon Snow on the show gives the viewer a reason to continue watching.

Granted I'd still enjoy the show without him but I can see how having nothing but morally corrupt characters can turn some people off.

Yeah, I would have been very disappointed if Snow had actually gone over to the Wildlings. I thought he might end up throwing the oath away and running off with the Wilding women, and she doing the same to her people. When they had a failing out is wasn't exactly shocking (Snow killing a defenseless Farmer would be Hound level cruel), but I still couldn't believe they weren't going to be together. I still hold out hope they will come together somehow. The mention that her archery skills are fantastic to the point she purposely didn't kill snow warmed my heart and renowned my hope.

[Jmacq1]

The rule for the Starks seems to be "adapt to survive" or perhaps simply "Learn to let go."

Ned, Robb, and Catelyn all refuse to compromise themselves in any way. While this is honorable, even admirable after a fashion, the decisions that result from that lack of compromise contribute directly to their downfalls. Ned finally bends at the finish for the sake of his daughters (when he agrees to confess), but by then it's already too late.

Meanwhile, you have the (so far) survivors:

Bran: Bran has abandoned Winterfell and the people he's supposed to rule for the sake of learning more about his abilities. Even when given an opportunity to reunite with his family, refuses it. Yet, he's still alive, despite many efforts to kill him.

Arya: Sadly, Arya seems on the path to become the least Stark-like of all the Starks. While I think readers enjoy watching her moments of vengeance, by the time the series is done I think she may end up being one of the most tragic characters of the entire saga. She'll get some measure of vengeance, but there won't be anything left of her that's recognizable as the Arya Stark we started out with. Or Martin will subvert expectations yet again and Arya will never get the degree of personal retribution she desires, with her foes falling to others rather than her.

Sansa: Sansa has had to learn the very difficult lesson of surrendering your pride without surrendering your dignity. She has had to "suppress" the part of her that's Stark (symbolically speaking, to my mind she lost it when Lady was killed). She's been forced to become a passive observer and yet still seems to retain a degree of innocence and compassion that many would have lost by now in similar circumstances, and after so many moments of seeming hope that end up with her in situations that are even worse.

Jon Snow: Jon Snow seems to be learning that you can still walk a path of honor without allowing yourself to be so inflexible that you become impractical. He broke his Night's Watch oaths, but he did so for the greater good of protecting the Watch and by extension the Realm. In the long run, it's starting to look like that may have put him on a path to some degree of greatness, even if just among the Night's Watch.

Of course, there's Rickon as well, but I think he's young enough that the decisions about his own survival are out of his hands. Still, I think the ultimate lesson for the Starks is "Sometimes you need to be able to let go."