Game of Thrones

[Sardorim]

His death may cause a heavy hand to be applied.

Cersi is owned by her emotions and all she can see is revenge against Marg, she fails to see that her quest for revenge is screwing everything up.

[Jmacq1]

I know that Selmy was a lost cause after reading aDwD,but i feel that he needed a more grandiose way to end and mostly,he should reveal to Danny more about what kind of nutjob was her father and more details about Rhaegar.And i was never a big fan of his,but i feel the show didn't utilise the character enough.

Dying killing 14 guys single-handedly is about as grandiose a warriors' death as one can ask for, especially from a 60+ year old man.

I can see the point about utilization, but really, without the Siege of Mereen/Yunkai War (which seems to be getting abandoned in favor of the Sons of the Harpy getting bumped up as the primary threat), Barristan's only real job is to stand around and occasionally talk about the good old days with Dany, and given the amount of condensing the show has to do...he's had one scene where he explained the King's madness in about as harsh of terms as Barristan would ever bring himself to speak of someone he served, and another where he talked up Rhaegar, which is really all they need.

The show has like two-dozen main and secondary characters to juggle already, some are going to have to fall by the wayside or they won't be able to finish the show in the timeline they want (seven seasons).

My only disappointment comes not from the show itself, but from the non-inclusion of certain characters and plots kind of indirectly spoiling that they probably aren't all that important in the grand scheme of things/not necessary to arrive at the generally "right" ending. See: Arianne Martell, Young Griff, Lady Stoneheart, and the Ironborn in General.

[byc]

I know that Selmy was a lost cause after reading aDwD,but i feel that he needed a more grandiose way to end and mostly,he should reveal to Danny more about what kind of nutjob was her father and more details about Rhaegar.And i was never a big fan of his,but i feel the show didn't utilise the character enough.

He's been giving her advise constantly on how NOT to be like her father. Like when he advised mercy for the Masters, and she crucified them. Like just 2 episodes ago when he asked her to be balanced and fair, and she went along until Mossador executed that Son of the Harpy they captured, and then she executed Mossandor in return.

Grey Worm and Ser Barristan both kicked major ass last night. They were merely overwhelmed by numbers.

[thwhtGuardian]

I was pretty sad to see Bariston go, he was one of my favorites.

[Joker]

Aren't The Unsullied supposed to be, like, the ultimate badasses? Why did some random dudes in robes and masks take them out? They should, for all we've been told in story, been able to handle that.

Maybe getting ahead of the books was a bad thing.

[lancerman]

Aren't The Unsullied supposed to be, like, the ultimate badasses? Why did some random dudes in robes and masks take them out? They should, for all we've been told in story, been able to handle that.

Maybe getting ahead of the books was a bad thing.

Sort of not really. They are hyped up a lot. In practice they aren't invincible and a lot of people consider them a very outdated force. They aren't supposed to be optimal in close quarters combat. Also Dany specifically sort of ignored all the instruction with them. She gave them autonomy, didn't give them the drug their masters were giving them, etc.

It was still bad because the Sons of the Harpy are essentially rogue civilians. The threat to Mereen in the books was a little bigger than just that.

Honestly book Selmy wouldn't have went out that way. Westerosi knights, especially Kingsguard, are like masterclass and he was the best of that current crop, albeit a bit aged. That was probably more of a stretch, but more realistic than the books.

[Paul W.]

Pretty convinced at this point that Jon Snow is the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna.

* Melisandre tried to have sex with him and mentioned "shadows"... probably trying to create another undead shadow (possibly to murder the Boltons?) But that magic requires royal blood.

* Stannis pointing out that Ned Stark wasn't the type of man to father a child with a prostitute

* Littlefinger helpfully getting us all up to speed on the story of Rhaegar and Lyanna

* Melisandre saying "you know nothing, Jon Snow"

This episode pretty much confirmed R+L=J for me.

Things do appear to be pointing in that direction. I've been saying it forever.

However, there *is* still one other possibility, and it isn't Rhaegar.

Lyanna is pretty much a lock, though.

[Paul W.]

The unsullied are the ultimate battlefield army. Guerrilla warfare, not so much.

[Jmacq1]

Things do appear to be pointing in that direction. I've been saying it forever.

However, there *is* still one other possibility, and it isn't Rhaegar.

Lyanna is pretty much a lock, though.

The other possibility wouldn't make much sense from a storytelling or timeline perspective, though. At least in the books.

[Paul W.]

The other possibility wouldn't make much sense from a storytelling or timeline perspective, though. At least in the books.

From a storytelling point of view, yes. It wouldn't make a lot of sense for Ned to hide the fact. From a timeline perspective though, I'm not so sure. Did the war take more than 9 months? Or even a year? I'm not sure it did. And the opportunity was there, as everyone attended the games where Rhaegar honored Lyanna and started the war to begin with. In fact, "winner of the melee" and all that. So, timeline wise, did they ever really say that the war took , say, a year or more? I don't remember it.

However! I'm on record as saying I'm about 90% convinced it's Rhaegar, from years ago. In fact, I'm on record as saying that it could very be that there wasn't any rape involved, that the whole thing was mutual, consensual.

There's just that nagging tiny little uncertainty in my mind, if the timeline works out. The whole "dark hair dominant" that Ned and Jon Arryn made such a fuss over vs. Targaryen "fair hair dominant", for example.

[Jmacq1]

From a storytelling point of view, yes. It wouldn't make a lot of sense for Ned to hide the fact. From a timeline perspective though, I'm not so sure. Did the war take more than 9 months? Or even a year? I'm not sure it did. And the opportunity was there, as everyone attended the games where Rhaegar honored Lyanna and started the war to begin with. In fact, "winner of the melee" and all that. So, timeline wise, did they ever really say that the war took , say, a year or more? I don't remember it.

However! I'm on record as saying I'm about 90% convinced it's Rhaegar, from years ago. In fact, I'm on record as saying that it could very be that there wasn't any rape involved, that the whole thing was mutual, consensual.

There's just that nagging tiny little uncertainty in my mind, if the timeline works out. The whole "dark hair dominant" that Ned and Jon Arryn made such a fuss over vs. Targaryen "fair hair dominant", for example.

I got the impression from the way Robert talked about her that Lyanna was the one woman he wanted that he never actually bedded. It's part of why he's pining for her nearly 20 years later (a little longer in the show).

Though I can, at least, see a reason for keeping it from Robert, I just don't think Ned would have gone along with it: If Robert found out he had a son with Lyanna, he'd have legitimized him and named him his heir. This would've ruined any alliance between the Baratheons and the Lannisters (not that this wouldn't have been a good thing in the long term, but in the near term it likely would've meant another civil war), which would've led to more chaos and death in the Kingdoms, and likely have made it impossible to recover from the Rebellion (without Lannister gold to help rebuild). However, Ned being Ned, I think he'd have told Robert, Lannisters be damned, because he wouldn't be thinking about the long-term consequences for the Kingdom and certainly felt the Lannisters should be on the outs, anyway.

[Lax]

This show demonstrates exactly how much religion should be thoroughly outlawed.

What punishment would you suggest?

[AndrewCrossett]

What punishment would you suggest?

Three Our Fathers and three Hail Marys.

(**sorry**)

[Paul W.]

However! I'm on record as saying I'm about 90% convinced it's Rhaegar, from years ago. In fact, I'm on record as saying that it could very be that there wasn't any rape involved, that the whole thing was mutual, consensual.

There's just that nagging tiny little uncertainty in my mind, if the timeline works out. The whole "dark hair dominant" that Ned and Jon Arryn made such a fuss over vs. Targaryen "fair hair dominant", for example.

By the way, there's still one person in Westeros who is alive and knows the truth. So maybe Martin will grace us with the full explanation by the end of the TV series. Which, by my count will finish a good 6 - 8 years ahead of the books.

[Jmacq1]

My only kinda beef with the Rhaegar bit between Sansa and Littlefinger was that Littlefinger gives Sansa that totally blatant "It's cute that you think that but it's totally wrong" look when she mentions Rhaegar "Kidnapping and raping" Lyanna Stark.

The thing is...as well-connected as Littlefinger is, I don't see any reasonable way Littlefinger would know otherwise. He wasn't exactly close to any of the players in that little drama at the time. So him having "inside knowledge" on Jon's parentage seems...odd, at best.

But between Stannis' "That wasn't Ned Stark's way", Melisandre's not-so-random seduction attempt (notice the ONLY people she's slept with/tried to sleep with have "The blood of Kings"...except supposedly John, unless you stretch and say he has the blood of the "King in the North") and the two separate Rhaegar conversations, I almost wonder if Jon's parentage comes to light before the end of the season somehow.