Avengers #37 *Spoilers*

[vitruvian]

I am going ot keep this pretty short


- SHIELD Avengers arrive where the Illuminati were... only to find a hologram thing where Beast and Banner basically tell Steve he is being played and is so far behind them in intelligence that they are wasting their time. This makes Steve angry

- Back on the Helicarrier, we learn a lot about what has happened recently...
-- Susan is now trusted by Steve to the point her clearance is higher due to her interrogation of Cho
-- The UN let Wakanda be destroyed. Terrax offered the Earth protection from the Incursions if they just sit and watch Wakanda be destroyed. They agreed
-- Black Bolt is missing and the Inhumans do not like the Avengers
-- X-men now have an X-Nation which does not like te SHIELD avengers either. This makes Beast partly untouchable along with contacting Psylocke in regards to Brians whereabous
-- SHIELD has used up a lot of its good will by entering into countries looking for the Illuminati
-- Steve still considers Stark and Richards Priority number one

- Sue is actually working for Reed and the Illuminati
- We discover it seems Reed tried to get Franklin to fix everyting but he wasn't able too. And the FF students are working on the problem
- Valerie gives Reed a note than tells Reed he cannot win and that he has to figure out a way to just not lose. Sue reminds Reed that she is just a child and can be wrong just like him



lots and lots of stuff to at least tell us where we are at. Not real advancement but still

This was interesting... so it gets confirmed that the world's nations at the UN formally agreed to stand back and let the Cabal destroy Wakanda in return for them handling the Incursions. It also makes the world's official stance that yes, the governments are okay with destroying alternate Earths in order to save their own, let alone the two entire universes. Ergo, the Illuminati must not be hunted for even considering the exact same course of action, but rather for having kept the Incursion problem secret for so long. Still seems like the directive to SHIELD from the world's governments would not be capture so much as recruitment, since relying on the Cabal doesn't seem like much of a long term plan for survival, while the Illuminati are at least presumably still working on other solutions. Presumably the reason Steve is not going after the Cabal immediately to prevent their ongoing genocides is because he's under orders not to... but it seems more than a little strange that he's following those orders. Are billions of innocent lives every week or so less important than the principles at stake in Civil War?

There's also a lot of confusion about who gives SHIELD (and Steve, who's apparently running it again) their orders. It seems here like it's a US entity that's lost a lot of leeway in global operations, but at the end of Hickman's very own Secret Warriors, it was reformed under the auspices of the UN Security Council (albeit with majority US funding and clout, like much of the UN itself). You'd think he would remember his own story on that, so for the moment I'll assume there's an untold story where control of SHIELD passed back to US government only.

[vitruvian]

If all the X-men are in X-nation and not playing nice with SHIELD (they don't have a good relationship now)... then what psychic do you bring that is strong enough to punch through any protection Reed, Hank, Banner, T'challa, and/or Cho would have put in place before sending her under?

Are there any NON mutant telepaths even around anymore?

Heather "planet controller" Douglas, aka Moondragon.

[vitruvian]

2 Points:
1. Can someone explain to me why Susan said she's just a child?

2. Why does the UN bow down to Terrax and the slaughter of a whole nation, but did nothing but arrhate when the Phoenix 5 offered them energy/food/keep their democracies in exchange of just not blowing each other up?

1. Because she was referring to Valeria, who being 3 years old, is indeed a child.

2. Because if nobody does something about the Incursions as they happen, everything is just gone. Finito.

[vitruvian]

This does have heroes teaming up and fighting problems - it's just that it's different teams of heroes teaming up to solve problems in ways that run counter to each other. We have the Illuminati and S.H.I.E.L.D. and the Avengers and the not-so-good guys in the Cabal all working on the same problem, each believing themselves to be just in pursuing their own solutions. That's more interesting than - "Uh-oh, here's a problem! Come on, pals, let's team up and solve it!" You can get that from watching The Superfriends. It's not to say that you can never have stories like that anymore but certainly what Hickman is doing is far more fascinating and less easy to predict. Loved seeing Steve's anger - his reaction to the taunting hologram with Beast and Hulk, his remark to Hill about not referring to the Illuminati members by their superhero code names anymore, his reminder to Carol about not to ever forget to include the status of Reed and Tony in any reports. And the revelation about Sue was surprising and welcome. Glad to see that they're working together and I wonder what Steve's reaction will be if he discovers that Sue's playing him and S.H.I.E.L.D..

Steve and his group appear to be doing nothing nothing whatsoever about the Incursions themselves.

[vitruvian]

This all makes sense as to why T'challa wanted to disarm the bombs and to be honest i don't blame him. Hell, I might have done the same myself

Attachment 11831

Except what if they had gotten the bombs away from the Cabal and the world had to come hat in hand to him and Shuri asking them to use them? What then? Would they blow up populated alternate Earths, yes or no?

If yes, would they let themselves and the remainder of their people and billions or trillions of people in two universes who never heard of Wakanda perish if their demands were not met?

If no, what difference does it make that they shame the world before everything ends?

[vitruvian]

Exactly, its the classic puzzle mystery. AIM has the gate that leads to the Map Maker's base which is where the Great Destroyer is. Doom has a destroyed Earth piece that is used like a Pin on Google Maps and how to use it to navigate to where the Incursions start. The Illuminati know about the Incursions but don't know how to permanently stop them but have weapons that could probably destroy the Big Bad. If you have all three pieces and then put in the Avengers they could stop all of this. However, the Illuminati think they are too smart so no one understands what they are doing. Doom feels he is the end all be all. AIM believes they know better than anyone and the Avengers are too busy trying to bring people in because they aren't doing it their way. Hence, why the Great Destroyer and the Incursions are happening is because every side is doing their own thing instead of working together to stop it.

What makes you think the Great Destroyer is at the Map Makers' home base?

[Mark]

So at least instead of giving up the Illuminati are actually doing something? That's actually a surprise to me considering how worthless they were before.

[vitruvian]

None of them are on the UN General Assembly. They would have had to conquer all (or most) of the world's governments to stop it from going down.

No, they wouldn't. They would have just had to go to Wakanda and stop the Cabal. No need to beat up the whole UN in order to ignore the UN's decision, since it's not like there were UN troops helping out the Cabal.

[vitruvian]

If Cyclops is around..no way is Storm even remotely in control.

Why do you say that? It's not like she hasn't beaten him out for leadership of the X-Men before.

[AcesX1X]

and let's be honest, it's not like they haven't violated the UN before. when luna was kidnapped by a terrorist, the avengers violated the UN and sent a squad to genosha for a rescue.

and when the phoenix five had the UN surrender, steve took it personally and launched a holy crusade on the mutant nation. he just didn't care about wakanda and apparently, neither did anyone else.

[anthony_lynch15]

So at least instead of giving up the Illuminati are actually doing something? That's actually a surprise to me considering how worthless they were before.

Yeah, it seems now that they don't have to deal with incursion AND all the moral dilemmas that brought with it, they can apply themselves to the big problem.
I.e. Treating the disease instead of the symptoms.

[Mark]

Well it'll probably be rebuilt sooner or later, much like New York.

and let's be honest, it's not like they haven't violated the UN before. when luna was kidnapped by a terrorist, the avengers violated the UN and sent a squad to genosha for a rescue.

and when the phoenix five had the UN surrender, steve took it personally and launched a holy crusade on the mutant nation. he just didn't care about wakanda and apparently, neither did anyone else.

[Mark]

Still now that the secrets out are they asking anyone for help or just running? I'm not sure if they are going to solve it in time or not and there's a part of me that really isn't sure I want them too. Not a lot worth saving in the mu as far as I'm concerned. And it's not like the universe won't be in peril of being wiped out again in another year or so.

Yeah, it seems now that they don't have to deal with incursion AND all the moral dilemmas that brought with it, they can apply themselves to the big problem.
I.e. Treating the disease instead of the symptoms.

[anthony_lynch15]

Still now that the secrets out are they asking anyone for help or just running? I'm not sure if they are going to solve it in time or not and there's a part of me that really isn't sure I want them too. Not a lot worth saving in the mu as far as I'm concerned. And it's not like the universe won't be in peril of being wiped out again in another year or so.

The fact that Captain Britain is there makes me think that they are asking for help.
But Old Man Rogers and SHIELD really has it in for them at this point, so it seems like it's run while trying to work on the problem, or go to jail and do nothing.
That said they should have brought the problem to everyone's attention right from the start.

[AcesX1X]

it's entirely possible that captain britain could be the one to bring steve up on charges in the omniversal court.