Dick Grayson: Robin, Nightwing, Agent of Spyral - Appreciation

[wvchemteach]

The spec-ops idea by Joe Casey ruined WildCATS forever. Dick and Roy could go there, but the others aren't really suited for cloak and dagger. That's why I'd like an Outsiders--or maybe a differently-titled group--of existing characters so that the writer isn't so enamored of his new babies that he neglects Nightwing--the STAR. I would bring in characters like Frankenstein, Element Woman, Caitlyn Fairchild, Klarion, Elasti-Girl (yeah, I'd resurrect Rita Farr), a Gorilla, maybe Orca--the most off-beat, and for the MOST part butt-ugly characters I could find. I'd love to have Grifter, but one male good-looking character would probably be enough; besides, Dick would have issues with him shooting everyone in sight. You could put someone like Tao on the team, and let Dick try to figure out how to stay ahead of him--show how smart Dick is by letting him constantly outwit Tao and actually use that character for good. Even the PRESENT Titans team could work--if DC tried taking them in different directions instead of regurgitating old stuff like Hatton Corners, Honey Bun, etc etc etc with so-called "new twists". Nobody here but me remembers that lousy 60's stuff and it has NOT aged well.

I think you've hit the nail on the head. They keep trying to recreate the 60s stuff which was never that great to begin with or recreate New Teen Titans and the Judas Contract instead of going a new direction. I think what they need to do is keep the current line-up, age up Rachel a few years and move her and Starfire to the Titans and go an entirely new direction. No Titan's tower, no T-jet. If you reintroduce old villains like H.I.V.E., Brother Blood, or Trigon amp up the threat to the 13th degree and quit trying to recreate pizza parties and pillow fights.

[nightbird]

by Nikola Čižmešija

[Frontier]

by Nikola Čižmešija

He looks like Jason with the jacket .

[Grayson - The Dark Heir]

I think you've hit the nail on the head. They keep trying to recreate the 60s stuff which was never that great to begin with or recreate New Teen Titans and the Judas Contract instead of going a new direction. I think what they need to do is keep the current line-up, age up Rachel a few years and move her and Starfire to the Titans and go an entirely new direction. No Titan's tower, no T-jet. If you reintroduce old villains like H.I.V.E., Brother Blood, or Trigon amp up the threat to the 13th degree and quit trying to recreate pizza parties and pillow fights.

Exactly! I just want to see Dick take on huge threats again. That's all the Titans book needs.

[Hizashi]

Anyone read the Captain America Dimension Z storyline? Would a story like that work for Nightwing, where he's trapped for some time in another reality/dimension?

[Ascended]

Anyone read the Captain America Dimension Z storyline? Would a story like that work for Nightwing, where he's trapped for some time in another reality/dimension?

I haven't read that Cap story, but I know the basics of it.

And yeah, Id be down for a story like that. But Ive been saying for a while that I want to see Nightwing as the member of the Gotham clan that gets out of the city and into the crazy, high-concept superhuman stuff. A Bat fighting Super threats, as it were.

So Dick lost on another world of some kind is right up my alley. But it really does go against the way DC has used him since the 90's.

[Ascended]

So, random question. The Roxy Rocket thread got me thinking, and she's a villain I want to see as part of Dick's rogues gallery. I think Roxy would be perfect as Nightwing's "Catwoman" villain; the one with all the sexual tension and the hope that she might turn her life around one day. The more I think about this, the more I want to see it. What do you guys think?

Also, I think Nightwing's rogues gallery should be heavily women, lots of femme fatales and such. Very James Bond-ish....except Dick doesn't have to sleep with all of them.

Who does he have for rogues who are solidly, well entrenched in his mythos? Rogues you *cant* just ignore for too long. He's got Blockbuster.....Raptor perhaps.....maybe the Court of Owls if you dont consider that just borrowing from Bruce.......is there anyone else?

Who needs more attention? Who should jump ship from another franchise? I'd love to see Deathwing used more (as the classic dark mirror foe), Spyral (as the global organization threat, akin to Intergang or the League of Assassins), Lady Vic (as the cold blooded hired hand), Roxy Rocket (as the thrill seeking troublemaker and "lust interest" foe), and Volcana (a pyrokinetic villain from the Superman cartoon). And you know, crazy as it sounds, if the Super-books aren't doing anything with her....Maxima, who maybe thinks that, even though humans are weak and pathetic, Nightwing's butt makes up for it and he'd make a worthy consort for Almerac. It's funny and scary at the same time.

I dunno how often the rogues have been discussed, so if Im beating a dead horse we can limit it to "Should Roxy Rocket be a Nightwing villain?"

[Hizashi]

I haven't read that Cap story, but I know the basics of it.

And yeah, Id be down for a story like that. But Ive been saying for a while that I want to see Nightwing as the member of the Gotham clan that gets out of the city and into the crazy, high-concept superhuman stuff. A Bat fighting Super threats, as it were.

So Dick lost on another world of some kind is right up my alley. But it really does go against the way DC has used him since the 90's.

Yeah, he could face nightmare versions of certain characters, or threats that he wouldn't normally face in the main universe. And you could have a B-story or backup where the Batfamily or the Titans struggle to bring him back.

So, random question. The Roxy Rocket thread got me thinking, and she's a villain I want to see as part of Dick's rogues gallery. I think Roxy would be perfect as Nightwing's "Catwoman" villain; the one with all the sexual tension and the hope that she might turn her life around one day. The more I think about this, the more I want to see it. What do you guys think?

Also, I think Nightwing's rogues gallery should be heavily women, lots of femme fatales and such. Very James Bond-ish....except Dick doesn't have to sleep with all of them.

Who does he have for rogues who are solidly, well entrenched in his mythos? Rogues you *cant* just ignore for too long. He's got Blockbuster.....Raptor perhaps.....maybe the Court of Owls if you dont consider that just borrowing from Bruce.......is there anyone else?

Who needs more attention? Who should jump ship from another franchise? I'd love to see Deathwing used more (as the classic dark mirror foe), Spyral (as the global organization threat, akin to Intergang or the League of Assassins), Lady Vic (as the cold blooded hired hand), Roxy Rocket (as the thrill seeking troublemaker and "lust interest" foe), and Volcana (a pyrokinetic villain from the Superman cartoon). And you know, crazy as it sounds, if the Super-books aren't doing anything with her....Maxima, who maybe thinks that, even though humans are weak and pathetic, Nightwing's butt makes up for it and he'd make a worthy consort for Almerac. It's funny and scary at the same time.

I dunno how often the rogues have been discussed, so if Im beating a dead horse we can limit it to "Should Roxy Rocket be a Nightwing villain?"

I'm always up for expanding Dick's rogues gallery, maybe include Owlman somehow, or a Grayson who became Talon? What about Tarantula? I think there could be some Kryptonian's who would take exception to his using the name of a famed hero from their world.

I agree with your suggestions, and I think the globetrotting of Grayson and the early Rebirth-Nightwing was great. The Bludhaven stuff could work if they grow Dick's rogues gallery. Do you have nay specific stories in mind with any of your suggestions?

[oasis1313]

I haven't read any of Roxy's material, but she sounds like an enjoyable villainess for Dick. Some FUN would be nice in Dick's book. It's better than Dick sitting around in Spandex Anonymous meetings.

[jbmasta]

Yeah, he could face nightmare versions of certain characters, or threats that he wouldn't normally face in the main universe. And you could have a B-story or backup where the Batfamily or the Titans struggle to bring him back.



I'm always up for expanding Dick's rogues gallery, maybe include Owlman somehow, or a Grayson who became Talon? What about Tarantula? I think there could be some Kryptonian's who would take exception to his using the name of a famed hero from their world.

I agree with your suggestions, and I think the globetrotting of Grayson and the early Rebirth-Nightwing was great. The Bludhaven stuff could work if they grow Dick's rogues gallery. Do you have nay specific stories in mind with any of your suggestions?

A Dick Grayson Talon from another universe, or even a split personality, has potential. The distinctive Nightwing style, but taken to a killer level would provide Dick with a mystery to solve and be a decent way to do the cliched hero with bad publicity angle. His greatest enemy is quite literally himself. It'd also be a nice way to bring Damian in, and he has to remember how he used to be and compare it to how he is now.

In the final issue of Grayson (not counting the Annual #3) had Dick summon his various identities, including the Talon he never was, in a mental battle with Doctor Daedalus.

[Godlike13]

Lady Vic needs to make a proper reintroduction.

[K Nikk]

So, random question. The Roxy Rocket thread got me thinking, and she's a villain I want to see as part of Dick's rogues gallery. I think Roxy would be perfect as Nightwing's "Catwoman" villain; the one with all the sexual tension and the hope that she might turn her life around one day. The more I think about this, the more I want to see it. What do you guys think?

One of the reasons Catwoman/Batman relationship worked for me is that even from early on there was a hint of both of them trying to help/protect each other even when they HAD to be adversarial on the surface. She was often helpful (though refused to call it helping "I won't help. But I can be helpful" <- Long Hallowe'en) even when she didn't have to be which I took as respecting what he was trying to do. When caught in her diabolical traps she would give Batman a way out (it's not always about HER being let go! She was the one letting HIM go as well) even at risk of backlash from her own people - who are probably more dangerous to her than Batman is. That equalness in their consideration for each other made the attraction fun.

Detective Comics 211 (paraphrased)
Henchman: hey we caught Batman and Robin. Let's shoot them!
Catwoman: Stop! Cut them down!
Henchman: Why? He's right here. We can get rid of him right now!
Catwoman: I have a better plan. Cut them down and give them a headstart and then I will hunt them with my wild cats! ~btw you can't come along, so you don't see me steer my Wildcats away from where they are hiding so that they can get away~ Oh and they have to be stripped nearly naked, but leave their cowls on! ~mmmm batman, but i will protect their identities too~

Their early interactions were so fun.

Most hero's do have a villain romantic interest based on sexual tension and I could see Roxy being that for Nightwing; but to match the Catwoman dynamic you need them both to be willing to help each other and sacrifice for the other, even when they are going about their different paths, and even when it pains them to do so. It can't be just about Nightwing trying to reform Roxy because of their mutual attraction to be a Catwoman type character for him.

But yes, a fun femme-fatale would be enjoyable, and Roxy seems fun.

[nightbird]

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bdp16srAX4h/

NTT homage by Phil Jimenez


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[wvchemteach]

So, random question. The Roxy Rocket thread got me thinking, and she's a villain I want to see as part of Dick's rogues gallery. I think Roxy would be perfect as Nightwing's "Catwoman" villain; the one with all the sexual tension and the hope that she might turn her life around one day. The more I think about this, the more I want to see it. What do you guys think?

Also, I think Nightwing's rogues gallery should be heavily women, lots of femme fatales and such. Very James Bond-ish....except Dick doesn't have to sleep with all of them.

Who does he have for rogues who are solidly, well entrenched in his mythos? Rogues you *cant* just ignore for too long. He's got Blockbuster.....Raptor perhaps.....maybe the Court of Owls if you dont consider that just borrowing from Bruce.......is there anyone else?

Who needs more attention? Who should jump ship from another franchise? I'd love to see Deathwing used more (as the classic dark mirror foe), Spyral (as the global organization threat, akin to Intergang or the League of Assassins), Lady Vic (as the cold blooded hired hand), Roxy Rocket (as the thrill seeking troublemaker and "lust interest" foe), and Volcana (a pyrokinetic villain from the Superman cartoon). And you know, crazy as it sounds, if the Super-books aren't doing anything with her....Maxima, who maybe thinks that, even though humans are weak and pathetic, Nightwing's butt makes up for it and he'd make a worthy consort for Almerac. It's funny and scary at the same time.

I dunno how often the rogues have been discussed, so if Im beating a dead horse we can limit it to "Should Roxy Rocket be a Nightwing villain?"

Personally I like trolling through the C and D list of various Rogue Galleries and seeing how they can be reimagined into a legitimate menace.

I thought Higgins did that wonderfully with the Prankster during New 52.

Another thought I had was perhaps the Electrocutioner, Lock-Up, Black Spider, and Tarantula setting up in Bludhaven as more extreme vigilantes and you have Dick having to take them down, then they come back individually or together for revenge on Nightwing.

The Club of Villains would be a nice international type group of villains for Nightwing.

The whole Circus of the Strange fits well as a Nightwing villains.

Catgirl could be a potential Catwoman-like foe.

Doctor Death has a lot of potential.

Double Dare also has that potential for a Catwoman-like pair of foes and hey it is Dick why not have two femme fatale sisters fighting over him.

A redesigned Eraser could be an excellent foil.

A reintroduced Lady Vic would always be exciting.

A re-imagined Onomatopoeia could be a good challenge as well.

Zeiss could be amped up to be a Bane-like villain for Dick.

Additionally, Shrike and Seiko, and Feedback all have potential for Nightwing villains as they all have personal connections to Dick Grayson.

[Ascended]

Do you have nay specific stories in mind with any of your suggestions?

Nothing overly concrete, more like little snippets of interaction, or vague plot outlines. Mostly what I have are roles that certain villains could fill in the gallery. Y'know how heroes all have certain types of villains? The dark mirror, the global agency, the overpowered villain the hero can't beat in a straight up fight, the mobster, etc. I've just been thinking about who could fill various spots in the gallery.

With Roxy in particular I envision a very Catwoman-esque game of "cat and mouse" where she steals something and causes some mayhem and Dick chases her through town while they throw banter and flirt. Have her throw him a little help now and then, as another poster mentioned with Selina and Bruce.

Lady Vic I have a few ideas for, but those are mostly just turning her into a "Deathstroke" who could be part of Dick's rogues gallery, since Slade himself is a solo act and can't throw down against the heroes without a lot of back-and-forth between creative teams.

I do have some ideas for the Mad Mod becoming a Bludhaven-based "villain vendor" who hooks the bad guys up with gear and fences their stolen goods, using a retro style, hipster-friendly dance club as a front for his activity. Sort of like the guy in Central City who provides the gear for the Rogues. Not a "villain" precisely, but someone who adds some flavor to the Blud.