Dick Grayson: Robin, Nightwing, Agent of Spyral - Appreciation

[Agent Z]

He was Batman for some time you know.



The Titans franchise have been a mess in the comics for a long time. New52 and Lobdell was so bad, it was clear DC editorial doesn't care about the Titans. They keep on rebooting, reshuffling and retconing past Titans and stories. It made me rarely follow the Titans in comics.

The Titans need to get a permanent roster like the Justice League then make honorary members appear from time to time, like Justice League Unlimited. The main members should consist of the New Teen Titans founders: Dick, Wally, Donna, Vic, Gar, Kory and Rachel. Garth and Roy could be special honorary members. The Justice League doesn't do the generational passing, why in hell should the Titans do it. Putting Beast Boy and Raven in Tim or Damian's generation was a very big mistake. The same goes for Cyborg in the Justice League. It destroyed the whole Titans history.

DC needs to reboot the whole Titans in comics with Dick as the center like how Wolfman and Perez did.

So where Jean Paul Valley and Terry McGinnins.

Changing the Titans roster allows to keep things fresh and appeases those who complain that Dick is too good for the team

[nightbird]

https://www.instagram.com/p/BW3Mko1lkVG/

https://www.instagram.com/p/BW4vGglg0CZ/
https://www.instagram.com/p/BW3GTMhAtum/

[DGraysonWorldsGreatestSpy]

I guess since Titans just started filming there won't be any information for some time.

[prettysunshine9]

ohmy.jpg

Well then... that picture is very lovingly...drawn...isn't it? Ooft.

[nightbird]

Well then... that picture is very lovingly...drawn...isn't it? Ooft.

Yeah, battle *cough, cough* damaged Nightwing lmfao

[Agent Z]

Debateable. Him, Superman and Batman seemed to be considered a unit for long stretches of time, most notably World's Finest Comics, and Wonder Woman began to struggle in the Silver Age. She was arguably stuck in an awkward tier below the Superman-Batman team and the rest of the League in terms of popularity/importance. Thankfully no longer seems to be the case.

The concept of the Trinity refers to characters who have been consistently published in solo titles since their debut. Sales have nothing to do with it. They tried to replace Diana with Hal when he was outselling her and it went over about as well as a lead balloon.

The difference is that Superman is a more timeless character than the Titans. The success of the Titans stories were due to them growing up together and evolving, but those developments can only go so far before something else is needed. They eventually stopped aging, and now they can't become the premiere heroes because their mentors are not aging and going anywhere (nor should they, as they are the big cash cows). They can't be the younger generation anymore because there are two more coming up behind them. Superman and Lois at least have a son in canon which is kind of new, while the Titans are just hanging out in Dick's apartment and dealing with yet another damn traitor in their midst.

Superman’s supposed timelessness hasn’t saved him from repeatedly struggling for relevancy in comics and related media and the Titans can boast a better track record in the latter. Hell, half the Blue Boy Scout’s modern stories are about if he’s relevant even within the fictional universe he exists in.

It's not just DC's inability to let go of the Silver Age that is creating problems. They're inability to let go of the Post-Crisis/modern age and trying to cater to as many fans as possible is creating problems as well.

That’s just it. They aren’t catering to as many fans as possible. They’re catering to one specific group of fans and giving scraps or nothing to others. Marvel is the one catering to as many fans as possible despite catching hell from fanboys who don’t feel certain characters should exist and they’re cleaning DC’s clock.

He's certainly not in a bad place by any means, at leas as far as his solo is concerned and the potential of getting a movie (as well as guest starring in Barbara's). The Titans side of things needs some major work and he needs a better writer than he is typically given when Seeley eventually leaves.

Well I didn’t have an issue with the Titans side until LC but I suppose I can agree with this part.

It still boggles the mind that, if we must do a re-tread, why are we not re-treading the actual good stuff? Like they go on about restoring the classic lineups, but we got the Young Justice generation with awful Tron outfits in the New 52, and now we got the Fab Five in their mostly boring adult-not-sidekicks-anymore identities with the 70s Titans.

They should have restored the NTT history and have all the characters at their proper ages and go from there.

Wait I thought this board was tired of NTT.

[batsgrayson]

Someone should take your words seriously? No? Good.

I don't agree with everything they said but sometimes the negativity in this thread can be a bit overwhelming.

[nightbird]

I don't agree with everything they said but sometimes the negativity in this thread can be a bit overwhelming.

Guy/girl has a personal beef with Dick's fans (here) lol
People here are hardly negative, they just voice their concerns and opinion.
Also, from what I see majority of Dick's fans don't hate Babs. They don't like DickBabs as a couple. It's two different things.

[yohyoi]

I don't agree with everything they said but sometimes the negativity in this thread can be a bit overwhelming.

This is still tame compared to past discussions. Everyone has their opinions. And as long everyone is polite and no one is being harassed, I see no problem.

From my perspective, Dick has a lot of passionate fans that continued to support the character even at his lowest point. It's best to say your opinions rather than be quiet, thus letting DC and the fanbase know it.

[batsgrayson]

Guy/girl has a personal beef with Dick's fans (here) lol
People here are hardly negative, they just voice their concerns and opinion.
Also, from what I see majority of Dick's fans don't hate Babs. They don't like DickBabs as a couple. It's two different things.

Oh, I've never seen them here before, so I didn't know.

Yeah, but as a fan of both characters sometimes the hate towards that pairing here turns into Babs bashing which can be quite frustrating sometimes.

[SiegePerilous02]

The concept of the Trinity refers to characters who have been consistently published in solo titles since their debut. Sales have nothing to do with it. They tried to replace Diana with Hal when he was outselling her and it went over about as well as a lead balloon.

It doesn't have anything to do with sales, but in terms of iconography, there was a period where Dick was grouped together with Clark and Bruce much more frequently than Diana was.

I don't think DC ever tried to seriously replace Diana with Hal. He was in the middle of Supes and Bats in, like, one poster because his glowing ring made it an obvious center piece, and Wonder Woman fans flipped the hell out because he was beating her in sales (small wonder, because his book was better than hers at the time) and they were jealous.

Superman’s supposed timelessness hasn’t saved him from repeatedly struggling for relevancy in comics and related media and the Titans can boast a better track record in the latter. Hell, half the Blue Boy Scout’s modern stories are about if he’s relevant even within the fictional universe he exists in.

There is nothing "supposed" about Superman's timelessness regardless of the periods where is popularity waxes and wanes. His symbol is still out there in the mainstream, he clearly has no trouble getting new generations of fans, and he doesn't rely on inheriting a legacy or character development from one specific continuity to work as a character. Strip him down to his basics and he still works, the same cannot be said for the second generation.

The Titans having some very popular cartoons is hardly a much better track record if we're taking all of Superman's other media portrayals into account. George Reeves, the radio shows, the Fleshier cartoons, Christopher Reeves, DCAU (at least S:TAS), Smallville, Lois & Clark, DCEU (which is so divisive because people care), etc.

That’s just it. They aren’t catering to as many fans as possible. They’re catering to one specific group of fans and giving scraps or nothing to others. Marvel is the one catering to as many fans as possible despite catching hell from fanboys who don’t feel certain characters should exist and they’re cleaning DC’s clock.

I haven't been paying much attention to anything Marvel is doing lately outside of the movies, but you're the first person I've seen say Marvel is definitely beating DC. From the sales charts, it looks like there is a mixture of titles from both publishers in the Top 50.

Wait I thought this board was tired of NTT.

We want to move on from it, but not using it as a foundation or having it in canon is still a grave mistake. Changing the lineup too much from the NTT era and putting in some new generations of kids is also not what I think a lot of people have in mind. The name "Titans" is associated with Dick and his group, it's their name, so shoving in Robin II and the rest isn't an interesting change.

[Godlike13]

Unfortunately Babs isn't really popular on these forums in general.

And about Dick and the Titans, Titans needs to be better. They are not gonna put Dick on the JL, but the Titans can be a premier superhero team in its own right. Unfortunately though it's currently not. Not even close. Hell they are not even trying. They have nothing to re-establish the Titans as a team. So instead of the Titans series being a book about a premiere superhero team of young adults, it's a refuge for characters that they don't know what else to do with but have no where else for them to go. Which does jack for Dick, and does put him in weird position where he's actually marginalized, and almost punished for being more successful, like we are currently seeing with him in Titans. It's frustrating, especially when they seem to be positioning him to be the face of the Titans outside of comics.

[Agent Z]

There is nothing "supposed" about Superman's timelessness regardless of the periods where is popularity waxes and wanes. His symbol is still out there in the mainstream,

Not really a measure of how many people like him.

he clearly has no trouble getting new generations of fans,

my experiences tell me otherwise.

and he doesn't rely on inheriting a legacy or character development from one specific continuity to work as a character.

I think whether this is a feature or a bug depends on your view.

Strip him down to his basics and he still works, the same cannot be said for the second generation.

Fans can’t even seem to agree on what these basics are.

The Titans having some very popular cartoons is hardly a much better track record if we're taking all of Superman's other media portrayals into account. George Reeves, the radio shows, the Fleshier cartoons, Christopher Reeves, DCAU (at least S:TAS), Smallville, Lois & Clark, DCEU (which is so divisive because people care), etc.

Most don’t pay attention to much less remember the George Reeves shows or radio shows. Lois & Clark was only deemed good for two seasons, Smallville would have been canned after two or three seasons on any network that wasn’t the CW and I say this as someone who liked the show inspite of its many flaws, S:TAS is overshadowed by B:TAS, JLU, Beyond and even Static Shock is deemed more impressive given it starred a minority hero most weren’t familiar with. If anything the DCEU is the most he’s been talked about in ages.

I haven't been paying much attention to anything Marvel is doing lately outside of the movies, but you're the first person I've seen say Marvel is definitely beating DC. From the sales charts, it looks like there is a mixture of titles from both publishers in the Top 50.

Marvel still has the overall greater marketshare.

We want to move on from it, but not using it as a foundation or having it in canon is still a grave mistake. Changing the lineup too much from the NTT era and putting in some new generations of kids is also not what I think a lot of people have in mind. The name "Titans" is associated with Dick and his group, it's their name, so shoving in Robin II and the rest isn't an interesting change.

It is for some.

[yohyoi]

Which does jack for Dick, and does put him in weird position where he's actually marginalized, and almost punished for being more successful, like we are currently seeing with him in Titans. It's frustrating, especially when they seem to be positioning him to be the face of the Titans outside of comics.

This is so true it hurts. Everyone else is a freaking mess in the Titans.

We want to move on from it, but not using it as a foundation or having it in canon is still a grave mistake. Changing the lineup too much from the NTT era and putting in some new generations of kids is also not what I think a lot of people have in mind. The name "Titans" is associated with Dick and his group, it's their name, so shoving in Robin II and the rest isn't an interesting change.

Hopefully DC pushes the NTT back to existence since the Titans live action is composed of the NTT team. Dividing the NTT team to promote the sales of Damian's TT team will only confuse people in the end.

[SiegePerilous02]

Unfortunately Babs isn't really popular on these forums in general.

I think it really boils down to her getting in the way of peoples' ships of choice for Dick, and her being the one to have the Batgirl mantle.

I've yet to come across a legitimately good reason for the hatred she gets.

And about Dick and the Titans, Titans needs to be better. They are not gonna put Dick on the JL, but the Titans can be a premier superhero team in its own right. Unfortunately though it's currently not. Not even close. Hell they are not even trying. They have nothing to re-establish the Titans as a team. So instead of the Titans series being a book about a premiere superhero team of young adults, it's a refuge for characters that they don't know what else to do with but have no where else for them to go. Which does jack for Dick, and does put him in weird position where he's actually marginalized, and almost punished for being more successful, like we are currently seeing with him in Titans. It's frustrating, especially when they seem to be positioning him to be the face of the Titans outside of comics.

This is so true it hurts. Everyone else is a freaking mess in the Titans.

He really is too good for the title as it is now. I honestly think the Titans need him way more than the other way around.

Not really a measure of how many people like him.


my experiences tell me otherwise.


I think whether this is a feature or a bug depends on your view.


Fans can’t even seem to agree on what these basics are.


Most don’t pay attention to much less remember the George Reeves shows or radio shows. Lois & Clark was only deemed good for two seasons, Smallville would have been canned after two or three seasons on any network that wasn’t the CW and I say this as someone who liked the show inspite of its many flaws, S:TAS is overshadowed by B:TAS, JLU, Beyond and even Static Shock is deemed more impressive given it starred a minority hero most weren’t familiar with. If anything the DCEU is the most he’s been talked about in ages..

People wouldn't be wearing the symbol on t-shirts if they didn't like the character. That's not how people work. Whatever the fallout of BvS was, all that build up and the insane amount of interest it generated? That wouldn't have happened if the two title characters weren't so enormous. You would never get that level of interest for a Titans movie, at least pre-release.

The basics are the origin, Metropolis, Daily Planet, Lois Lane, Lex Luthor, Kryptonite, etc. Superman's best stories, especially in recent years, are the continuity light ones that still pull from the iconography everyone knows. That's the sign of a strong character and mythology attached to him. The building story arcs for characters and continuity can be a wonderful strength, but also a weakness. It means they are less adaptable. Dick was hurt A LOT at the start of the New 52 because his timeline was screwed up and his history with the Titans was gone, whereas Clark was doing infinitely better than he had before Flashpoint.