Dick Grayson: Robin, Nightwing, Agent of Spyral - Appreciation

[Badou]

This seems a concern rather of Dick`s character and the lack of a certain history than a concern of kory`s character. Her journey isn`t as dependable on him, if she had kissed someone else she would have learned one language from Earth anyhow.

And IMHO, that would be the one aspect to consider, she wasn`t terrible considering she was written in parts like a Wolfman Starfire.

Lobdell's Starfire was pretty awful, but I guess everyone is going to feel different depending on how you viewed the Outlaws series.

Looking at it, Dick's important history with Starfire was given to Roy and Jason, but at the same time Dick's relationship with her that lead to him being more of an adult was erased from her history as well. So Starfire lost her probably biggest connection in the DCU. Although Starfire's character wasn't nearly as important to Dick since he became a Batman character again. We honestly have no idea about most of Dick's Titans history anymore really. All we know is that he ran around in an awful Robin costume with some of the original Teen Titans members, and some other members no one cares about, but we have no idea about the major things anymore. Like how they all met and even why Dick decided to become Nightwing. We are 6 years into the New 52 era and we still have no idea why Dick became Nightwing anymore, lol.

[Frontier]

Lobdell's Starfire was pretty awful, but I guess everyone is going to feel different depending on how you viewed the Outlaws series.

Looking at it, Dick's important history with Starfire was given to Roy and Jason, but at the same time Dick's relationship with her that lead to him being more of an adult was erased from her history as well. So Starfire lost her probably biggest connection in the DCU. Although Starfire's character wasn't nearly as important to Dick since he became a Batman character again. We honestly have no idea about most of Dick's Titans history anymore really. All we know is that he ran around in an awful Robin costume with some of the original Teen Titans members, and some other members no one cares about, but we have no idea about the major things anymore. Like how they all met and even why Dick decided to become Nightwing. We are 6 years into the New 52 era and we still have no idea why Dick became Nightwing anymore, lol.

Oh yeah, wasn't Lazarus Contract supposed to address this ?

[nightbird]

Oh yeah, wasn't Lazarus Contract supposed to address this ?

... maybe he changed his identity to train Rose?

[yohyoi]

Oh yeah, wasn't Lazarus Contract supposed to address this ?

I was thinking we need a Nightwing: Zero Year. I don't mind Seeley and Tom King writing it, but like Dixon's Nightwing: Year One, I'm expecting it near the 100th issue.

... maybe he changed his identity to train Rose?

You can add it at Teen Titans: Zero Year.

[joybeans]

Oh yeah, wasn't Lazarus Contract supposed to address this ?

Priest mentioned that his original plan for Lazarus Contract was drastically altered.

[Frontier]

Priest mentioned that his original plan for Lazarus Contract was drastically altered.

Yeah, since it was supposed to actually address Judas Contract and the New Teen Titans' existence but didn't.

If that had actually happened I feel like the event would have felt more meaningful, at least in a positive way, then it ultimately did.

[Aioros22]

She was not written as Wolfman's Starfire. New52 Starfire was as far as you can get from Wolfman's. Wolfman's Starfire was kindhearted and will not abandon her love of Dick Grayson. The last thing she would do is kill people after meeting Dick. Starfire's journey is dependable on Dick, since Wolfman made her to compliment Dick. Most of her character development was because of the Titans, especially Dick. They were also supposed to get married. How far from Wolfman can you go?

Saying Starfire should kiss someone else to learn English is like saying someone else should have found Superman as a baby. It is an iconic moment and integral to the character.

It was a recurrent trait of character her being shoutet to not kill because she considered human laws as putrid and not able to punish some people accordingly. By the times the Wildebeest came in she was jailed because she went for the kill shot and taken advantage of her predisposion of such by the Society.

It was badly executed because Office didn`t care to dwell on it but she still met Dick when she came to Earth. I just don`t thibk she requires to be a slave of Dick Grayson to be seen valid as a character. Not after being divorced of him for decades.

[Frontier]

I miss Dick and Starfire being close...

[Aioros22]

Lobdell's Starfire was pretty awful, but I guess everyone is going to feel different depending on how you viewed the Outlaws series.

True enough.

Look, I`ve read everything of Wolfman`s Titans. By far one of my favorite runs of DC. The reason why I can dissociate her from Dick is because the rest of her traits have to be there and I think for the good part they were. She was kind, fierce, a leader, etc. Was it perfect? Nah, nobody will ever write her as Wolfman did but I just don`t require Dick Grayson to see her worth.

The fundamentals can still be there, he and some others can still be there when she comes to Earth and repel an invasion but there`s no reason why she can`t get along with other characters after that first arc. If anything was severely missing in RATHO`s Starfire it was her sweetness, not kindness or fierceness. Wolfman`s Kory had a sweet spot for new things, almost pure. Lodbell`s Starfire didn`t. She seemed more cyninal, like someone who`s been here a bit longer.

[yohyoi]

It was a recurrent trait of character her being shoutet to not kill because she considered human laws as putrid and not able to punish some people accordingly. By the times the Wildebeest came in she was jailed because she went for the kill shot and taken advantage of her predisposion of such by the Society.

It was badly executed because Office didn`t care to dwell on it but she still met Dick when she came to Earth. I just don`t thibk she requires to be a slave of Dick Grayson to be seen valid as a character. Not after being divorced of him for decades.

Let's agree to disagree. Many people think New52 destroyed Starfire even if you don't. Rebirth is bringing back the good of the pre-New52 and a lot of people love it.

She is back to the Titans as far away from the Outlaws. Her time and characterization as an Outlaw is as far as Lobdell from writing another Teen Titans book.

I miss Dick and Starfire being close...

When the Bat falls, DC will go bankrupt but not until the Titans office publish a last issue containing Starfire and Nightwing's marriage. Laughter will be heard in the Titans office, while the rest of the people are crying because they lost their jobs.

[nightbird]

To be fair, I don't think Teen Titans a better alternative for Starfire. What she is even doing in that book?

[Aioros22]

I miss Dick and Starfire being close...

Well, so do I.

I was pleased Loedbell didn`t try to romance her and Jason because that would be pushing a bigger envelope and I prefer it that way. I loved their friendship and trust and the fact that as per the new continuity, it took an alien to make Jason first open up after the whole mess with his return and so. I felt that was genuinely the sweetest Kory has ever been since the reboot.

I was hoping they`d use Jay to reconcilie the two, but alas.

[Alycat]

To be fair, I don't think Teen Titans a better alternative for Starfire. What she is even doing in that book?

Standing around being a familiar face. It's seriously sad. She should be leading the team not bossed around by a child.

I too miss Dick and Kori being close.

[nightbird]

My Twitter and Insta pages are full of people saying that Drake Bell is teasing playing Nightwing. I hope it's just a voice acting...

[Aioros22]

Let's agree to disagree. Many people think New52 destroyed Starfire even if you don't. Rebirth is bringing back the good of the pre-New52 and a lot of people love it.

She is back to the Titans as far away from the Outlaws can be. Her time and characterization as an Outlaw is as far as Lobdell from writing another Teen Titans book

I`m not defending any reboot or continuity. I rather writers use what helps. Simple as that.

She`s in Titans - not the main ones - but she was still an Outlaw. I`m satisfied.