Dick Grayson: Robin, Nightwing, Agent of Spyral - Appreciation

[dietrich]

But at least UTRH is really kind of exception thats apparently hard to replicate, Son of Batman was obviously supposed to do something similar for Damian, and I don't have the feeling that the impact of that movie was as big as the one UTRH had.

And about Dick as Nightwing opposed to the other identities. I don't think it really matters, even casual fans of these characters will usually learn about the Nightwing identity at some point.

It depends on what that was. Since the story and expected audience reactions are on the opposite spectrum.

Did you like Damian in Batman and Son? Were you rooting for him?

Son of Batman Damian is an arsey kid who is better than you, richer than you, is rude to Batman and is shocked that there's only one servant seeking revenge fir the death of his super villain granddad which he achieves. Easily

UTRH Jason is the street kid who became Batman's sidekick, tortured and killed by the Joker who comes back and is broken to find that Batman refuses to avenge him.

See the Difference? There is no way in hell those two are supposed to do the same unless you're talking about public awareness. Both movies introduced them to General public.
But expected audience reaction is different

One character is supposed to elicit sympathy the other you are supposed to love to hate. Damian they are trying to do what the comics did. A character that grows and develops as things progress. Like fungus.

I do agree that the recent movies aren't as impactful or well made as UTRH. In fact only about 4 DC animated movies are impactful in anyway I can see today

[Badou]

I don't think its too late though, its never been a better time for heroes as far as pop culture is concerned. Like I mentioned in previous posts, I think the age of broody lonely heroes is kinda losing its appeal in the public eye and the idea of 'hero groups' or even somewhat duos, seems to be popular and successful when executed right. ie; Avengers, GOTG, the recent Spiderman film, perhaps even the JL film etc. And if we hypothetically can assume this, then this may actually be the best time to begin building upon the various characters within Batmans universe, starting with Dick and maybe Barbara too, hell even the appearance of the Robin in Lego Batman, or the Robin suit in BVS may have helped to open the door for more casual movie goers to accept that no, Batman despite what tons have films have told the public, does not work alone. I think perhaps even the idea that the perception around Batman may change in the publics eye, was what was holding back the representation of the batfam, and yes I'm aware how ridiculous that it. :P

But at least UTRH is really kind of exception thats apparently hard to replicate, Son of Batman was obviously supposed to do something similar for Damian, and I don't have the feeling that the impact of that movie was as big as the one UTRH had.

And about Dick as Nightwing opposed to the other identities. I don't think it really matters, even casual fans of these characters will usually learn about the Nightwing identity at some point.

What UTRH and Arkham Knight also did was focus on Jason's origin and the origin of Red Hood. Doing that made digesting Jason's character and understanding his story very easy. He's the Robin that the Joker killed then came back as Red Hood to seek vengeance against villains and challenge Batman. A very easy story to understand and a big reason I think why so many jumped on his character so quickly despite not having many other media appearances. Even the name Red Hood is simple and easy to understand visually.

There hasn't really been a story like that for Nightwing. Nightwing is very clunky, especially compared to Dick's Robin origin. He basically has two origins. The Judas Contract one, which is a classic story but nearly impossible to adapt, and the common origin of Dick and Bruce having a falling out and Dick leaving/getting fired, which I'm not a fan of. So we are in a situation where it becomes very difficult to show the transition from Robin to Nightwing to the public where they understand the transition.

No other media adaptation has even shown how/why Dick became Nightwing. He usually just randomly shows up as Nightwing without much or any context. I remember some people not really understanding who Nightwing was as a character when he randomly showed up in Arkham Knight or didn't quite understand at first who Nightwing was in the second season of Young Justice. Even in the Judas Contract animated movie he was already Nightwing in that well before the movie happened. It is difficult to market a character when their origin isn't very clear. Also the name 'Nightwing' doesn't really lend itself to understanding who this hero is either. I've had people ask me what a Nightwing is supposed to be when I've talked about the character, and trying to explain and adapt the Kryptonian origin (which is the part of the identity I like) of the Nightwing name is very difficult to as well without even more set up.

[Frontier]

I'm not sure if it was mentioned here but I think Loren Lester brought up in a recent interview that there were plans or talks around the time of The New Batman Adventures about adapting a specific story showing Dick's transition from Robin to Nightwing.

[Hizashi]

[jjmk-jjmk]
I love how some artists have embraced the ankle stripes but still haven't let go of the finger stripes. Bless em.

This should be his costume, a fusion of the two.

[Hizashi]

What UTRH and Arkham Knight also did was focus on Jason's origin and the origin of Red Hood. Doing that made digesting Jason's character and understanding his story very easy. He's the Robin that the Joker killed then came back as Red Hood to seek vengeance against villains and challenge Batman. A very easy story to understand and a big reason I think why so many jumped on his character so quickly despite not having many other media appearances. Even the name Red Hood is simple and easy to understand visually.

There hasn't really been a story like that for Nightwing. Nightwing is very clunky, especially compared to Dick's Robin origin. He basically has two origins. The Judas Contract one, which is a classic story but nearly impossible to adapt, and the common origin of Dick and Bruce having a falling out and Dick leaving/getting fired, which I'm not a fan of. So we are in a situation where it becomes very difficult to show the transition from Robin to Nightwing to the public where they understand the transition.

No other media adaptation has even shown how/why Dick became Nightwing. He usually just randomly shows up as Nightwing without much or any context. I remember some people not really understanding who Nightwing was as a character when he randomly showed up in Arkham Knight or didn't quite understand at first who Nightwing was in the second season of Young Justice. Even in the Judas Contract animated movie he was already Nightwing in that well before the movie happened. It is difficult to market a character when their origin isn't very clear. Also the name 'Nightwing' doesn't really lend itself to understanding who this hero is either. I've had people ask me what a Nightwing is supposed to be when I've talked about the character, and trying to explain and adapt the Kryptonian origin (which is the part of the identity I like) of the Nightwing name is very difficult to as well without even more set up.

Why not lean into the Kryptonian origin? Have Dick go on a journey with Clark (or something) and reveal himself to the superhero community as Nightwing?

[Badou]

Why not lean into the Kryptonian origin? Have Dick go on a journey with Clark (or something) and reveal himself to the superhero community as Nightwing?

That is probably difficult to do outside of comics. I mean if the Nightwing live action movie happens I imagine that Dick will create the Nightwing identity before ever meeting Clark. There have been subtle hints in the New 52/Rebirth that I think they want to move away from the Kryptonian origin and try and connect the Nightwing name to meaning something more bird-like, such as the Owls.

[Tony Stark]

[jjmk-jjmk]
I love how some artists have embraced the ankle stripes but still haven't let go of the finger stripes. Bless em.

That's epic. I love it.

[Aahz]

Did you like Damian in Batman and Son? Were you rooting for him?

The movie makes you imo more root for Damian getting is ass kicked so that he can learn some humility.

One character is supposed to elicit sympathy the other you are supposed to love to hate. Damian they are trying to do what the comics did. A character that grows and develops as things progress. Like fungus.

And the problem is that Damian doesn't grow in Son of Batman.

[jbmasta]

Comic costume logic I know, but how do the escrima sticks stay on the back of the Nightwing costume when not being held or used in combat?

[nightbird]

Comic costume logic I know, but how do the escrima sticks stay on the back of the Nightwing costume when not being held or used in combat?

magnets? =)

[Godlike13]

Sticky tape, obviously.

[nightbird]

DKN Exclusive Interview: Bernard Chang – Artist On ‘Batman Beyond’ And ‘Nightwing’

DKN: That’s so cool. I guess that you can’t talk about Batman without talking about his cast of supporting characters. I’m really excited to see your take on Dick Grayson. Nightwing is one of the greatest characters in the Batman mythos. Dick’s been around almost as long as Batman and Superman have. Are you a Nightwing fan too?

BC: Nightwing is fire! He’s been one of DC Comics’ greatest heroes. Sam Humphries (Nightwing writer) has crafted a really intense and deep story, filled with action and intrigue. We’re introducing a new main villain for Dick, someone that’s haunted him for years. so I’m really excited and hyped for our modern iteration of Nightwing. I was a fan of Dick back to his days with the New Teen Titans, and one of my favorite stories was the X-Men/Teen Titans crossover that Walter Simonson drew. I was really taken by his version of Dick and hope I can capture some of that essence.

http://darkknightnews.com/2017/11/17...and-nightwing/

[Godlike13]

Not trying to be negative, but I hope there is a decent in story reason why we never saw this villain who has haunted him for years. Beyond him not existing till now. Strike at least had Robin Year One to build his history, and even then it’s not like I cared much for Strike.

[TheCape]

So, another villain connected with Dick's past is coming?.

[dietrich]

And the problem is that Damian doesn't grow in Son of Batman.

In the comics did he grow in Batman and Son?
IN the AU was he still the same in Judas Contract as he was in Son of Batman? With those clues I;m sure you can figure it out.