Dick Grayson: Robin, Nightwing, Agent of Spyral - Appreciation

[Godlike13]

I think more of the credit goes to the foundation the Grayson's set in their son and Dick personality

And who was there when the Grayson’s couldn’t be, Bruce. So I think Bruce deserves his fair share of credit for Dick being there for Damian, and trying to be to Damian what Bruce was to him.

[Rac7d*]

Bruce did ok as a dad, if he didn't Dick and Damian wouldn't have the relationship that they do.

They're such a great team, and Dick is far better Dad material than Bruce. Damian deserves better than being shuffled to some generic Titans title. It would sell great.

Bruce did ok as a dad, if he didn't Dick and Damian wouldn't have the relationship that they do.

He is a good father and loves Damian very much (which is wh that deathstroke thing is a joke) but its the same as selina, Damian is number 2 to gotham, then again that not bad, he did go to hell and back for damian. Then again right now it a bit akward to me that selina is now damians step mother

[yohyoi]

Rebirth tossed away all the Bruce development from Nu52 Batman & Robin. He is back to being an absentee father. Damian is allowed to go crazy. Even the Batman series have few Robin appearances.

[dietrich]

And who was there when the Grayson’s couldn’t be, Bruce. So I think Bruce deserves his fair share of credit for Dick being there for Damian, and trying to be to Damian what Bruce was to him.

Bruce was but I still don't rate him. I think Dick turned out how he did in-spite of Bruce's parenting which was dodgy any spotty at best. There are tons of panels where he is good but also tons of panels where he is terrible.
I do agree that Dick was to Damian what Bruce tried to be for him.

[Frontier]

Bruce was but I still don't rate him. I think Dick turned out how he did in-spite of Bruce's parenting which was dodgy any spotty at best. There are tons of panels where he is good but also tons of panels where he is terrible.
I do agree that Dick was to Damian what Bruce tried to be for him.

I dunno, I know Bruce has his faults but I think looking at it that way takes away from how meaningful Bruce and Dick's relationship is or how significant what Bruce did for Dick was.

I also know people like to point to all the problematic or less well-adjusted aspects of Batman, and in the animated movie continuity Dick constantly goes on about how terrible being raised by Batman is, but in-spite-that I just don't want to view the relationship that way.

I also agree that Dick did for Damian what Bruce did for him and was central to Damian's initial character development.

[Onthetrapeze]

Dick once said Bruce was the best father he could be based on his situation. I agree.

[oasis1313]

Dick once said Bruce was the best father he could be based on the his situation. I agree.

I don't. With the exception of Tim, Bruce appears to view all of his child apprentices as "soldiers" in his war, and treats them like a 4-star general would treat a raw recruit.

[Onthetrapeze]

I don't. With the exception of Tim, Bruce appears to view all of his child apprentices as "soldiers" in his war, and treats them like a 4-star general would treat a raw recruit.

I tend to think Bruce has tried his best in his own way and Dick understands that. Given that its been more than 75 years, we both could find plenty of canon to back up our opinions respectively. So let's agree to disagree

[Grayson - The Dark Heir]

I don't. With the exception of Tim, Bruce appears to view all of his child apprentices as "soldiers" in his war, and treats them like a 4-star general would treat a raw recruit.

That's one of my least favourite interpretations of the Batman/Robin relationship, I hate when we get that in stories.

[SiegePerilous02]

Bruce was but I still don't rate him. I think Dick turned out how he did in-spite of Bruce's parenting which was dodgy any spotty at best. There are tons of panels where he is good but also tons of panels where he is terrible.
I do agree that Dick was to Damian what Bruce tried to be for him.

Bruce was a good if sometimes flawed father figure before Crisis hit, and they suddenly had to engineer conflict between them to get some cheap drama going.

The superior Bronze Age Bruce was a good mentor, so I tend to lean on that one as the true representation of what he's like as a father figure. And he's overall good one.

I don't. With the exception of Tim, Bruce appears to view all of his child apprentices as "soldiers" in his war, and treats them like a 4-star general would treat a raw recruit.

Not all versions of Batman are like that though. The ones that are, IMO, totally suck.

[Elmo]

Bruce is just a stale boring character now. Any big status quo change or development that a writer may try out is reversed by the next person to come along, and this is how it's been for the past couple decades or so. BatCat is probably the biggest thing to happen in years, and hopefully Tom King remains on the title for another 100 issues or so but I'm not confident that it will stick at all because the general public perception of Batman is that he is a brooding, depressive loner. The general audience doesn't even know about the Bat family and Robin is considered a joke to people who have never read the comics or seen the cartoons. It's crap.

If Dick were Batman in the comics and in the films it would allow the public to witness a Batman who isn't a brooding asshole, but is light-hearted and does a bit of wisecracking, but is also not invincible by any means.

I understand many want Nightwing to be a top tier character but I honestly think that is impossible considering Bruce will always be considered "the best" by the general audience. However, if Bruce were to be removed and Dick were to take his place (and not for a year or so, I mean for a WHILE) , it would allow people who don't know a lot about him to embrace him and take him seriously as a high-level character. And then, once the public perception has shifted and people know about Dick Grayson and how important he is, he can go back to being Nightwing, and Nightwing can be as big (or bigger) than Batman.

It starts with the character, not the codename. Bruce is the only thing holding Dick back. Get rid of him, and you can really evolve and develop Dick's character. Once you develop the character and do all you can to get the public to believe in him and care about him, not just the comics and cartoon fans, THEN you can get Nightwing to move to the top.

[Barbatos666]

Getting rid of Bruce to prop Dick will only turn Bruce fans against him. Besides Marvel tried this strategy, it doesn't really matter at all. Moreover the basic logic that one can succeed only if the other person goes away just makes the former look like a weak character. Many would even say that such characters dont deserve to be lifted.

[Frontier]

That's one of my least favourite interpretations of the Batman/Robin relationship, I hate when we get that in stories.

I understand where that interpretation comes from though, given how much writers play up Batman's militant view of his crusade and war on crime can be and how the Robins or his protege's fit into that. I mean, I'm not crazy about the idea of Robins as child soldiers either, but I understand where it comes from.

Even in Under the Red Hood we saw how important Jason was to Bruce and that he was generally a warm mentor to him during their years together, even when Jason started going off the rails. But he still referred to him as "My partner. My soldier."

I think it's only really bad when it comes off like Bruce using it as an excuse to be cold, condescending, or downright cruel, but even then you could see it as a coping mechanism.

If Dick were Batman in the comics and in the films it would allow the public to witness a Batman who isn't a brooding asshole, but is light-hearted and does a bit of wisecracking, but is also not invincible by any means.

We still get that with Bruce sometimes though.

[ayanestar]

Getting rid of Bruce to prop Dick will only turn Bruce fans against him. Besides Marvel tried this strategy, it doesn't really matter at all. Moreover the basic logic that one can succeed only if the other person goes away just makes the former look like a weak character. Many would even say that such characters dont deserve to be lifted.

You are right. It sounds exactly what Marvel tried these last years and it only hurt the company. I mean I enjoyed Dick as Batman especially because of his relationship with Damian but Bruce is Batman and Dick doesn't want to be Batman. I might have my complaints about Bruce but I don't actually want anyone to replace him for no reason. Getting rid of a character to push another one is simply stupid. Also Bruce is not holding back Nightwing, his own fans are unwilling to get him move forward. Just look at his tumblr fandom. They worship a mediocre book like Titans.

[Elmo]

The main problem is Bruce Wayne is just not that great of a character anymore and works better as a legend who is left in the past