Dick Grayson: Robin, Nightwing, Agent of Spyral - Appreciation

[dietrich]

In regards to writers not writing Bruce and Damian as Batman and Robin, there needs to be a reason for it in the comics. Retcon it that Bruce was so traumatised by Damians death that he tried to bench him. Damian, being Damian, gave him the finger and kept crime fighting. His brothers enable him. They should do something because otherwise Bruce just looks like a deadbeat dad.

He looked worse in Synders run.
In Tec it was implied that Bruce manipulated Damian into forming the Teen Titans for this big thing that's coming. In Teen Titans Damian tells him to piss off he wants to do like Grayson did when he was Robin ie be with a teen team and have an unsupervised place where he can call his own.

So they did give us some reasons. I believe DC doesn't want to close the chapter on Bruce and Damian as Batman and Robin they have plans for Damian beyond Robin and to keep him happy they likely agreed a sweetener with Synder to give his guy some solo time with the Bigbat to promote him and raise his profile.

The way things are DC is in a win win situation. They're going ahead developing Damian in the wider DCU, keeping Synder sweet and loyal and they get to use their preferred Batman and Robin duo when ever they want like they have been doing.
Bruce has never been a great parent, Robins have always spent time living at TT tower and Bruce has always collected young boys. So everything really is Status quo.

[darkseidpwns]

I wonder why Cobb isn't on the cover of the upcoming issue

[dietrich]

I wonder why Cobb isn't on the cover of the upcoming issue

maybe cos they had 2 villains in the issue and they went with the one with the more intriguing visual aesthetic or maybe Deathwing has been away so long he deserved his own solo cover.

[darkseidpwns]

maybe cos they had 2 villains in the issue and they went with the one with the more intriguing visual aesthetic or maybe Deathwing has been away so long he deserved his own solo cover.

Probabaly, I hope there's more to DW than just being a rapey evil Nightwing.

[lorraine]

Probabaly, I hope there's more to DW than just being a rapey evil Nightwing.

I hope to heaven that there will not be any rape cases here.

[Badou]

Somebody tell me why was Duke even created? Such a waste of space in the Batman comics. I'm sorry for sounding harsh but I'm so much not invested in this character.

DC wants a black hero in Gotham so they can market him. Gotham is very, very white. They would love to have a black Robin, but because Damian works so well as Robin, and is so young, they have to find other roles for the black hero. It is the same reason why they got rid of David (the first Batwing) and replaced him with Luke Fox because he is more connected to Gotham.

[Grayson - The Dark Heir]

I hope we finally find out who Deathwing is. I mean, we never found out who he was aside from not being the alternate future Dick Grayson.

I still think it would be crazy if he turned out to be an alternate future version of his son (or daughter... you never know). It would definitely be a way to resolve the arc without it going the cliche way and finally doing something in Nightwing that's more than just street-level stuff and leans more into sci-fi stuff. The "dark new world" villain mastermind dude who's broken Batman might actually be like a revamped Lord Chaos, we might get that Donna team-up soon enough. Like, I doubt Seeley would do that because of how utterly lame that would be, but he might be doing it only to do some really crazy and weird stuff down the line involving alternate futures and such, and I could see him revamping Chaos to be as ironic as possible, like Superboy Prime-style. Could be a fun time.

Also, i second to the no rapey stuff. Being a murderous Nightwing should be enough, like, being a rapist is definitely as anti-Nightwing as you can get, but idk if we really need to get that edgy here.

Oh and yeah, Badou is speaking the truth there. Luke only exists because David's book was selling as well as DC wanted, but they didn't want to lose a POC Bat-character. Connecting him to Gotham was their way of saving the book and the identity.

As for Duke, Damian, and eventually Tim, to all exist as "Robins" at once, tbh, seeing as we're about to have three Flashes, I'd be okay with that. Again, I'd prefer Bruce and Tim and Dick and Damian to exist as Dynamic Duos at the same time, so I'm obviously in favour of more Robins. But, I wouldn't be surprised if Snyder and King are working towards Bruce "dying" for a few issues and to have Duke become a second, teen Batman a la Miles Morales being Spidey at the same time as Peter. Anything to get rid of that Lark costume, it looks so bad especially when you think about how decent his Robin design was during Futures End. So, what I'm saying is, I'm fine with them continuing to push Duke, but I don't see them stopping any time soon so I'd rather we just stop pretending and let there be three "Robins" instead of pretending the three have totally different roles in the family when they don't.

Edit: oh whoa, I'm a senior member now? Cool.

[lorraine]

DC wants a black hero in Gotham so they can market him. Gotham is very, very white. They would love to have a black Robin, but because Damian works so well as Robin, and is so young, they have to find other roles for the black hero. It is the same reason why they got rid of David (the first Batwing) and replaced him with Luke Fox because he is more connected to Gotham.

Oh then they should have concentrated on Luke and build his presence more in Rebirth because right now I don't see any interesting thing from him. That's I think the problem with Batman and 'Tec - they can't continue to use all the characters the writers had created for the Batfam because it's too crowded, especially when the characters were created with potentials and only to be benched later on. I know many are happy that Batman has a large supporting cast but I just hope they do stop creating more new ones, and i know what have been done is done. These are just my thoughts.

[Fergus]

Rape is edgy?
Anyway I hope we do find out more about Deathwing and who he really is. I like the character and I'm glad he came back. He needs to get with it though he's wearing the wrong colours. Someone should tell him Rebirth happened.

[lorraine]

I hope we finally find out who Deathwing is. I mean, we never found out who he was aside from not being the alternate future Dick Grayson.

I still think it would be crazy if he turned out to be an alternate future version of his son (or daughter... you never know). It would definitely be a way to resolve the arc without it going the cliche way and finally doing something in Nightwing that's more than just street-level stuff and leans more into sci-fi stuff. The "dark new world" villain mastermind dude who's broken Batman might actually be like a revamped Lord Chaos, we might get that Donna team-up soon enough. Like, I doubt Seeley would do that because of how utterly lame that would be, but he might be doing it only to do some really crazy and weird stuff down the line involving alternate futures and such, and I could see him revamping Chaos to be as ironic as possible, like Superboy Prime-style. Could be a fun time.

Also, i second to the no rapey stuff. Being a murderous Nightwing should be enough, like, being a rapist is definitely as anti-Nightwing as you can get, but idk if we really need to get that edgy here.

Edit: oh whoa, I'm a senior member now? Cool.

Those are some nice concepts you got there. So if it's true that Nightwing is having a child right now, the child would likely turn out to be the evil version of his/her dad. But unfortunately Dick has to terminate the child in order to stop spreading the evil seed or something like that. This reminds of a scene from The Flash when Eddie Thawne had to kill himself so that there will be no Reverse-Flash in the future.

It would be awesome for Dick to team up with some of his Titans fellows but I'm not sure who Lord Chaos is. Many people here think it would be Hurt because of his past association with Pyg.

[Fergus]

Oh then they should have concentrated on Luke and build his presence more in Rebirth because right now I don't see any interesting thing from him. That's I think the problem with Batman and 'Tec - they can't continue to use all the characters the writers had created for the Batfam because it's too crowded, especially when the characters were created with potentials and only to be benched later on. I know many are happy that Batman has a large supporting cast but I just hope they do stop creating more new ones, and i know what have been done is done. These are just my thoughts.

The family is crowded which is the reason for all the rubbish and squabbling going on over what the Tec writer is doing, the batgirl wars and the whats to be done about "jailbird who cosplays as less awesome Robin. Too many members not enough stories and spotlight to go around it leads to fighting amongst the fan base. Duke should never have been a thing the current Robin is a minority you wanna be diverse then drawn him in a way that shows his mixed parentage don't make a new character or is mixed race not as diverse as black?

Duke is here because Scott Synder wanted to leave his mark on Batman like Morrison and others before him he's just doing a piss poor job.
The worst about Duke isn't that he exists it's that he is squandered in two books. They have him but they are not using him so he's just there.

[Fergus]

Those are some nice concepts you got there. So if it's true that Nightwing is having a child right now, the child would likely turn out to be the evil version of his/her dad. But unfortunately Dick has to terminate the child in order to stop spreading the evil seed or something like that. This reminds of a scene from The Flash when Eddie Thawne had to kill himself so that there will be no Reverse-Flash in the future.

It would be awesome for Dick to team up with some of his Titans fellows but I'm not sure who Lord Chaos is. Many people here think it would be Hurt because of his past association with Pyg.

The idea about him being Dick future alternate is fantastic but the Dick terminating the child is terrible. Imagine the outrage plus if Deathwing is an alternate then why would Dick terminate his own kid?

[Grayson - The Dark Heir]

Those are some nice concepts you got there. So if it's true that Nightwing is having a child right now, the child would likely turn out to be the evil version of his/her dad. But unfortunately Dick has to terminate the child in order to stop spreading the evil seed or something like that. This reminds of a scene from The Flash when Eddie Thawne had to kill himself so that there will be no Reverse-Flash in the future.

It would be awesome for Dick to team up with some of his Titans fellows but I'm not sure who Lord Chaos is. Many people here think it would be Hurt because of his past association with Pyg.

Lord Chaos was Donna and Terry Long (that one creepy looking dude from the NTT days)'s son from the future who used his godlike powers to basically take over the world. Hence my idea that he's the mastermind behind the "dark, new world," since it would be literal for him rather than metaphorical for the Hurts and Deacon Blackfires of the DCU. I mean, he killed his mom and everyone else basically died, Dick probably included seeing as there was a whole different person as Nightwing (who became Deathwing later), so it's assumed even Batman and Superman are dead. Also, let me make myself clear here: I only like this idea because I like the idea of Dick getting to do some sci-fi stories in his book which has been either globe-trotting superhero stuff or street-level superhero stuff. Also, it would be an opportunity to bring in Donna, which would be nice, so yeah. And also, I'm a sucker for super ironic characters and super meta stories, so a character all about edge like Deathwing and a Superboy Prime-like Chaos would be so fun to read about, lol.

I think someone like Dr. Hurt would be better if the purpose of this arc is to build up Dick as a serious hero who is equal to Bruce, giving him some really, really big bads to fight (I mean, in the New 52 we were getting Mad Hatter and Mr. Zsasz and a revamped Prankster, some of the lower-level Batman and Superman rogues, so it would be nice).

Rape is edgy?
Anyway I hope we do find out more about Deathwing and who he really is. I like the character and I'm glad he came back. He needs to get with it though he's wearing the wrong colours. Someone should tell him Rebirth happened.

I mean, yeah, kinda? I'm not saying we have to steer clear of all bad things in comics or something, but I'm not sure rape fits into this book. Even with this current arc, I feel like if they went too dark, it would be hard to go back to the more fun issues like the Bludhaven arc, which was great because of how much fun Seeley was having. I mean, as long as teh rape doesn't affect Dick in a big way, like Deathwing raped someone that Dick doesn't even know or Dick never finds out, sure, he could go about his business as per usual (or, as "usual" as he can when Blockbuster shows up). But, I'm sure it'll upset readers to see the book go from "oh shit someone got raped" to "oh hey Roy, can you like recommend a good show to binge without spoiling the story, thanks." There's already a sort of disconnect between the different types of arcs, so I'm not sure we need to make the difference even bigger, I guess. Doesn't help that Dick's been raped twice and a subset of fans are very sensitive about rape in Nightwing stories because of that.

Also, I love that he has the New 52 colours, the right amount of being meta in his design, I have a feeling this is going to be Seeley's chance to have fun with and trash the old 80's and 90's edge. ...Maybe he will bring up Deathwing raping Mirage and such just to make his point about how bad that was (bad as in quality, not morality).

[Avi]

It is a shame that Damian's mixed parentage is continuously forgotten/erased. Though Robin SOB managed it quite good and I guess TT does as well at the moment? I decided to trade wait it so I can only judge from what I'm hearing about it. The problem is DC and creative teams don't seem to care enough for it or at least not enough to keep the bare minimum like the color of his skin. Why have a character sheet and not use it?


Deathwing as the evil alternate future child? Count me in. Now I'll be disappointed if Seeley doesn't give us an equally as crazy revelation.


Nightwing and Rape when will that fear ever end.

[dietrich]

I wish Damian was drawn more tan I mean it's not that difficult but whatever.
The current Teen Titans does reflect his ethnicity and it's a really good read.

Love the idea of Deathwing as Dick's future alternate son and putting him in the hated new 52 colours was a stroke of genius however I wish people will let up on this rape thing of Deathwing. Didn't he rape 1 person? You guys make it sound like a serial rapist is coming for Dick. I wouldn't call someone who raped on person rapey.

And no there shouldn't be 3 robins or 2 Batman and Robin teams running around the DCU. There should be 1 Robin, 2 guys who are Robinish and Batman running with Duke[Lark] in the proper way as a team.