Jonathan Hickman should write Superman!!!

[Vanguard-01]

How does that work?

............Because I don't want to see a writer who turns heroes into monsters writing Superman?

I really don't see what's so complicated about this.

Once again. I do not set DC's policies. If DC gets Hickman to write Superman, nothing I say or do will change that. Hickman's actions on New Avengers have made me hostile toward him, so I won't be happy to hear this. If it turns out he's going to write a Superman story that's actually worth reading, he's going to have to convince me. I won't just blindly buy the book because his name is on it.

And anyway, this is a moot point anyhow. As Ascended said: Hickman likely won't be writing ANY mainstream comic books anytime soon. So I see no reason to continue this discussion any further.

[numberthirty]

And anyway, this is a moot point anyhow. As Ascended said: Hickman likely won't be writing ANY mainstream comic books anytime soon. So I see no reason to continue this discussion any further.

This aspect of it or the overall conversation?

[Dr. Cheesesteak]

Just the opposite, actually. A lot of his earlier work, especially in the superhero sphere, was based around Englightenment-era philosophers; a lot of Hegel, Locke, Kant, Sartre, etc. It's extremely optimistic and humano-centric, and in interviews he reveals himself to very much be an adherent to this expansionist view of human destiny; that we'll 'figure it out', overcome our follies and conquer and prosper.

His later work seems more inclined to explore, as you say, the pervasive nihilism that has so defined the modern, post-ironic hipster era (as it did in the decline of the roman empire), and you see a lot more Nietzsche, Camus, a little more Hobbes, etc. But I think that's because he is pretty professional, pretty goal oriented, and he sees that this is where the market is. This is what is popular.

[Edit - nevermind, this was sounding pretentious]

well, I will say his F4/FF run is probably #1 on my to-buy priority list (that or Moore's Swamp Thing finally...). And I only need to get Transhuman and Red Mass for Mars to complete my Image collection of his. So I hoping to see more optimism from his earlier work. Besides that, I don't have a real desire to read Secret Warriors (unless I had a ton of excess money), but I'm always open to the idea of reading any Hickman.

But anyway, I suppose it is a case of characters vs message? I mean, I can see everything you said reflected in Pax Romana, Manhattan Projects, even Red Wing... but most, if not all(?), of the characters are unlikable imo. But I can tolerate it - I hated almost every character in Pax Romana and still think it's one of the best comic stories I've read. Same w/ East of West currently. For me personally, if the craft is exceptional I can easily overlook characters I dislike (serialized characters are an exception, though - I don't care how well-written Constantine, Iron Man, etc could be, I'll have no desire to read them as characters).

But after seeing his Sun God and Captain America examples, I can believe he can write a good Clark Kent, Jimmy Olsen, etc. A big reason I can't wait to start F4/FF (man, I wish I could just experience comics in an instant instead of take weeks, months to read a long arc!) is to see how he writes characters w/ heart - something I have yet to see in totality.

(unless were you mainly counter-pointing me saying he was cynical? That really was just from me observing his jabs at DC, politics/current events, etc. Not necessarily his in-comic work. But alas, he does seem pretty cool at other times...)

[Dispenser Of Truth]

well, I will say his F4/FF run is probably #1 on my to-buy priority list (that or Moore's Swamp Thing finally...). And I only need to get Transhuman and Red Mass for Mars to complete my Image collection of his. So I hoping to see more optimism from his earlier work. Besides that, I don't have a real desire to read Secret Warriors (unless I had a ton of excess money), but I'm always open to the idea of reading any Hickman.

But anyway, I suppose it is a case of characters vs message? I mean, I can see everything you said reflected in Pax Romana, Manhattan Projects, even Red Wing... but most, if not all(?), of the characters are unlikable imo. But I can tolerate it - I hated almost every character in Pax Romana and still think it's one of the best comic stories I've read. Same w/ East of West currently. For me personally, if the craft is exceptional I can easily overlook characters I dislike (serialized characters are an exception, though - I don't care how well-written Constantine, Iron Man, etc could be, I'll have no desire to read them as characters).

But after seeing his Sun God and Captain America examples, I can believe he can write a good Clark Kent, Jimmy Olsen, etc. A big reason I can't wait to start F4/FF (man, I wish I could just experience comics in an instant instead of take weeks, months to read a long arc!) is to see how he writes characters w/ heart - something I have yet to see in totality.

(unless were you mainly counter-pointing me saying he was cynical? That really was just from me observing his jabs at DC, politics/current events, etc. Not necessarily his in-comic work. But alas, he does seem pretty cool at other times...)

Transhuman is actually maybe his most cynical work (that I've read), but Red Mass for Mars ends up somewhat less dark. And yeah, F4/FF is much more moral and upbeat.

[dishpan]

Superlad93, I just stumbled on this great thread and read everything you wrote throughout. Thank you. You are really really good at getting your point across as well as the reasoning behind it. I also think it's great how respectful you've been when countering people's disagreements with you step by step. I just wanted you to know that. Because your posts (especially the first one which started this thread) are EXACTLY how I feel. Seriously -- I could've written it! My intro to JH was F4 too and my lifelong love for SM should absolutely go hand in hand with JH's style and abilities. I completely love the idea and would do anything to make it happen. It seriously needs that level of creativity, imagination, and heart. After the masterpiece which is F4+FF and now the Avengers 'verse, there's really only one way for him to top himself and go even further up; and that's overseeing the entire SM family of books like you said. In fact if he can write two or three related Avengers titles per month then he might as well do both SM and AC at the same time while just being the guru for the rest so that everything fits. One could be a specific SM Family book like you suggested for sure. Honestly the only thing you've said which I kinda slightly don't agree with is that I personally would like SM/WW to remain romance focused because I enjoy that about the New52. And I would have Tony Daniel draw it. Who would you want to draw the other JH SM stuff?

[Dispenser Of Truth]

Looking up a reddit interview with Hickman last year, and I saw two very interesting, very relevant responses from him.

1. When asked "Do you agree that, even though you voted for Batman for president, that Superman is cooler or at least would beat him in fight?", his response was "Yes".
2. When asked by a new comics reader what to start with, he responded "You should read All-Star Superman first. Probably my favorite superhero stuff ever." He also recommended Starman, 100 Bullets, Preacher, Planetary, Authority, and The Filth.

[Dispenser Of Truth]

Kinda hate to bring a dead topic back up, but with the finale of Secret Wars...

spoilers:

His Superman analogue's line of defiance to the cosmic horror of the rest of the Avengers run ended up the final words of Hickman's entire 7-year Marvel epic. As everything works out after all and the multiverse is saved, Reed's final statement that humanity will endure and overcome in spite of entropy and horror is unknowingly capped with the mantra of the most heroic character in the entire run, justifying his hope in the face of the impossible and essentially giving Superman the roundabout final word: "Everything lives." Yeah, I very much doubt Marvel will let this story end with a message that basically amounts to "DC has a better worldview than us." This is basically literally how it ends.

end of spoilers

[Ishmael]

I can't stand Hickman's brand of pseudo-epic writing. His Avengers run is dry and tediously overwritten.

In fairness, I know Hickman is a really thoughtful writer with good ideas, but the execution of those ideas is just blah. Very rarely do his stories actually have any thematic resonance with the characters he's writing. Grant Morrison he is not. He's basically the comic book equivalent of some terrible neo-prog band with really flashy guitars but no resonance.

This. Nothing against him personally, but I would drop the Superman line of books if he took over any of them. Really do not care for his work: bloated, boring, with underwhelming conclusions to plots that drag on far too long.

[Superlad93]

Kinda hate to bring a dead topic back up, but with the finale of Secret Wars...

spoilers:

His Superman analogue's line of defiance to the cosmic horror of the rest of the Avengers run ended up the final words of Hickman's entire 7-year Marvel epic. As everything works out after all and the multiverse is saved, Reed's final statement that humanity will endure and overcome in spite of entropy and horror is unknowingly capped with the mantra of the most heroic character in the entire run, justifying his hope in the face of the impossible and essentially giving Superman the roundabout final word: "Everything lives." This is basically literally how it ends.

end of spoilers

That was my favorite part honestly (along with the awesomeness they were doing just before that!) , and to have that come from the mouth of who it came from made it all better.

spoilers:

I want a "Sun God was right shirt on Reed now lol

end of spoilers

Secret Wars really just strengthened my beliefs on Hickmen. He shows heart and emotion, but he also likes to show the equation for that heart and emotion. Also hats off to the man for literally creating a "holy trinity" for Marvel. Always the last laugh with this guy haha

[Flash Gordon]

This. Nothing against him personally, but I would drop the Superman line of books if he took over any of them. Really do not care for his work: bloated, boring, with underwhelming conclusions to plots that drag on far too long.

Yeah, I have to agree. After trying to read whatever Secret Wars was, I would not want to see that kind of story telling on a Superman book. I get why people would think it'd be cool, the scope is wide enough, but nah. Just too bloated, overwrought, and sadly very underwhelming in the end.

I liked FF, that's about it.