Namor75: Namor the Sub-Mariner Readathon

[Thor-El]

Thanks so much for all this marvelous work, Thor-El !

I only have the MMW vol 1 and 4 of Marvel Comic and the anniversary edition of the cross-over with the Torch , and I must confess that I haven't read them yet ! So I haven't understood yet that the serial narration of Namor was so epic ! Your selection of panels and your texts - both absolutely excellent - are perfect to feel the evolution of the characterization of Namor in the first years of his interaction with the surface. I really do wonder what would have happened to the character and the story if the context of the WWII hadn't interact with the writing...

BTW, did the character had success before that ? Will he have lasted that long or get forgotten like The Fin or Amazing Man ?... I tend to think that the character would have had a long life. He's such a perfect mix of elements incarnated in a very original and complex personality : the young Sub-Mariner sounds "real" as an individual, while caring a lot of symbolic elements - like if Everett chose bits of Greek mythology and of 1930's pop (???) culture (I'm thinking about Superman, Atlantis from Buck Roger's strips, Tarzan / Johnny Weissmuller or) King Kong and fused them all in this angry and complex young "man" he created. It's surely a more viable creation that Dirk The Demon !

And there are also all the stories published in the other mags... All-Winners and Sub-Mariner comics at least... I wish they release a collected edition of the stories by characters : A GA Omnibus Namor or Human Torch or Vision would be so great ! (Not that sure about Electro...). Do these stories follows their own "epic" storyline or are they more like one-shot - or were they connected sometimes like in an event ? It's not only the birth of a character but the birth of a medium - I mean a commercial one too...

You Namor's fans are really great : your passion allows such a wonderful travel through decades of comics history, with so much fun and surprises ! Keep on feeding us with you post Thor-El ! I can't wait for what comes next ! (I've already read the issues 13 to 16 (MMW vol 4) while drinking my coffee this morning... Funny things are coming ... Including crazy costumes... I love both Namor's and Dorma's in the last scan BTW... It won't be a surprise for anyone I guess... ...)

Thank you, Abe. And you are so right about the crazy costumes just peeked at the next issues and they ARE crazy!

[Mantis Girl 94]

Yes, I noticed that about the 3/4 human blood which implies Namor's mom Fen has to be a hybrid too? If Fen is 1/2 human, 1/2 submariner then Namor would be 3/4 human, 1/4 submariner.

I also noticed Lynn and Luther weren't war prisoners of the Germans which made sense as the United States have not yet joined the war. So I did a quick internet search to refresh my History: "Although the war began with Nazi Germany's attack on Poland in September 1939, the United States did not enter the war until after the Japanese bombed the American fleet in Pearl Harbor, Hawaii, on December 7, 1941."

That's the great thing about these comic books, its like taking a travel back in time and waiting for these huge historical events unfold.

I think the answer is; Namor is a youth, and not as wise in the ways of the world.

When he was even younger he asked his mom; "Who's my dad"?
Fen answered; "He was a very nice man...A white man...and he put his love in my womb".

Namor took that to heart (literally) and thought of his dad as putting some of himself in his mom... Hence that led Namor to believe he was 3/4th white! LOL

[Reviresco]

Thank you again! Loved it!

Nice to see the story continuing from the last issue...

"3/4 blood"??? I would of thought Namor was 1/2 and 1/2

I think the answer is; Namor is a youth, and not as wise in the ways of the world.

When he was even younger he asked his mom; "Who's my dad"?
Fen answered; "He was a very nice man...A white man...and he put his love in my womb".

Namor took that to heart (literally) and thought of his dad as putting some of himself in his mom... Hence that led Namor to believe he was 3/4th white! LOL

Heh ... Now I can't get this mother / son conversation out of my head. ;p

In the beginning of the Golden Age stuff, Fen definitely had some airbreather in her background. In the first issue, they don't say she's related to Tha-Korr at all and she was chosen because she was the most 'human' looking -- whereas Tha-Korr and other Sub-Mariners were more fish looking.



Obviously, this changed, even in the Golden Age, and in the Silver Age, it was eliminated all together.

What I'm curious about is the 'Goddess of Seals' title.

[Reviresco]

Thanks so much for all this marvelous work, Thor-El !

I only have the MMW vol 1 and 4 of Marvel Comic and the anniversary edition of the cross-over with the Torch , and I must confess that I haven't read them yet ! So I haven't understood yet that the serial narration of Namor was so epic ! Your selection of panels and your texts - both absolutely excellent - are perfect to feel the evolution of the characterization of Namor in the first years of his interaction with the surface. I really do wonder what would have happened to the character and the story if the context of the WWII hadn't interact with the writing...

Again, I'm not familiar with the DC stuff, but for Marvel / Timely, Bill Everett was the first to use the serial format -- as if Namor's story was one long story broken into 'chapters.' Except for his stories in other books ... which reminds me, I need to check on the date of the Human Torch appearances. But the other characters were done in one, unconnected stories.

I wonder the same. What sort of stories would Everett have been telling, and how would Namor have turned out if the stories didn't become war stories?

BTW, did the character had success before that ? Will he have lasted that long or get forgotten like The Fin or Amazing Man ?... I tend to think that the character would have had a long life. He's such a perfect mix of elements incarnated in a very original and complex personality : the young Sub-Mariner sounds "real" as an individual, while caring a lot of symbolic elements - like if Everett chose bits of Greek mythology and of 1930's pop (???) culture (I'm thinking about Superman, Atlantis from Buck Roger's strips, Tarzan / Johnny Weissmuller or) King Kong and fused them all in this angry and complex young "man" he created. It's surely a more viable creation that Dirk The Demon !

And there are also all the stories published in the other mags... All-Winners and Sub-Mariner comics at least... I wish they release a collected edition of the stories by characters : A GA Omnibus Namor or Human Torch or Vision would be so great ! (Not that sure about Electro...). Do these stories follows their own "epic" storyline or are they more like one-shot - or were they connected sometimes like in an event ? It's not only the birth of a character but the birth of a medium - I mean a commercial one too...[/QUOTE]

As I hauled out the giant Golden Age Omnibus and searched for the Namor stories, I certainly wished the same. Perhaps a binding project to consider, if I can pick up some cheap paperback editions of the Marvel Masterworks.

That's an excellent point. This was the birth of superhero comic books in the US. People like Everett were defining the medium, i.e. his serial story telling, the battle between Torch and Subby that created a shared universe, the team-ups, the flawed anti-hero -- all of which, he doesn't get recognized for.

I need to read more about the 30s, but yes, you can definitely see a variety of influences in Namor, that Everett captured perfectly, as well as the unconscious personal interjections.

Heh ... Dirk the Demon.

You Namor's fans are really great : your passion allows such a wonderful travel through decades of comics history, with so much fun and surprises ! Keep on feeding us with you post Thor-El ! I can't wait for what comes next ! (I've already read the issues 13 to 16 (MMW vol 4) while drinking my coffee this morning... Funny things are coming ... Including crazy costumes... I love both Namor's and Dorma's in the last scan BTW... It won't be a surprise for anyone I guess... ...)

Yet another thing to love about Namor ... his looooong history, that mirrors the history of American superhero comics. And yes! Thor-El you are doing a GREAT, GREAT job! Thank you!

Thank you, Abe. And you are so right about the crazy costumes just peeked at the next issues and they ARE crazy!

Nothing quite rivals The Fiiiin, but there are some eye popping costumes for sure.

[Reviresco]

Okay, I checked the database, and there is a Namor story in Human Torch 2 that falls somewhere after Marvel Mystery Comics 10 ... I don't think it has anything to do with the Luther and Lynne story, though. I'll have to cross check it tomorrow with the MMC stuff.

[Thor-El]

Okay, I checked the database, and there is a Namor story in Human Torch 2 that falls somewhere after Marvel Mystery Comics 10 ... I don't think it has anything to do with the Luther and Lynne story, though. I'll have to cross check it tomorrow with the MMC stuff.

Where the Human Torch comics Sub-mariner stories drawn by Bill Everett? I know he was drawn in those other comics like All Winners Squad etc. with a real ugly triangular face, very weird and extremely alien looking, almost like a Manta Ray. His body was extremely buff too almost like a Hulk but with a smaller waist and wrists. I don't think that was Everett drawing. I've seen some of those stories and there is some big inconsistencies with them, in some of them Namor seems weaker and I think he even gets wounded with a gunshot in one of them.

[Thor-El]

The story starts with Namor and Dorma in Fen's private chamber. Namor is feeling restless and thirsts for adventure. Fen suggests he goes after Luther and Lynne and Dorma suggests he goes to Europe where the war started. Dorma accompanies Namor in this adventure. Outfitted with custom made submariner adventurer costumes they leave looking for trouble. They reach a French island where they are taken to the governor. The governor has heard about Namor's escapades and decides wise to let them go without trouble provided they promise to leave the island to what Namor agrees. As they are leaving the governor's office a sudden Nazi air raid makes Namor and Dorma spring into action. Easily Namor defeats the air bombers and the Nazi soldiers are taken as prisoners of war by the French.



The above are selected scans that highlight the main points of a story to generate discussion in a forum. You can read the complete story by purchasing the Marvel Masterworks: Golden Age Marvel Comics Vol. 4 (Marvel Mystery Comics #13–16) or any other available reprints.
http://www.amazon.com/Marvel-Masterw...KV8Z84HAT78TE3

[Mantis Girl 94]

Thank you again, as always for posting these.

Surprised they live in an ice castle under the Antarctic Ocean...Brrrrrr

Like Namor's little octopus on his belt buckle in the first panel. Was surprised he wants to stop for "food and shelter"... Does Namor not eat Fish along the way?....and shelter shouldn't be a problem for someone that lives in below zero water most of their life LOL

Glad it mentioned Luthor again and the girl... way to make it seem like "Namor's life" and not just one comic story. Too bad the French person was happy for the help; but still called him a "Freak" LOL

BTW, was the uniform maker named; "Toro"?

[Reviresco]

Where the Human Torch comics Sub-mariner stories drawn by Bill Everett? I know he was drawn in those other comics like All Winners Squad etc. with a real ugly triangular face, very weird and extremely alien looking, almost like a Manta Ray. His body was extremely buff too almost like a Hulk but with a smaller waist and wrists. I don't think that was Everett drawing. I've seen some of those stories and there is some big inconsistencies with them, in some of them Namor seems weaker and I think he even gets wounded with a gunshot in one of them.

I think so. The first one, definitely is by Everett. I didn't get a chance to read the omnibus and figure out where it goes, though. Maybe tomorrow.

Ah, yes, the Space Alien Namor by Will Pfeiffer? I think that's his name. Those were done when Everett went to war.

[Reviresco]

Thank you again, as always for posting these.

Surprised they live in an ice castle under the Antarctic Ocean...Brrrrrr

Like Namor's little octopus on his belt buckle in the first panel. Was surprised he wants to stop for "food and shelter"... Does Namor not eat Fish along the way?....and shelter shouldn't be a problem for someone that lives in below zero water most of their life LOL

Glad it mentioned Luthor again and the girl... way to make it seem like "Namor's life" and not just one comic story. Too bad the French person was happy for the help; but still called him a "Freak" LOL

BTW, was the uniform maker named; "Toro"?

That is an interesting choice of names ... though maybe it had something to do with his odd horned gas masks. Emphasis on ODD.

We'll have to get a translation from Abe on the little bit of French.

Wow, you've got good eyes! I didn't realize that was an octopus. Of course, I just figured out that I should use 'view image' on the montage pic to see it full sized.

I don't see Namor as a fast food, grab his food on the run, kind of guy. He can stand the cold, but there's plenty of other 'weather' that he might want to avoid. Especially on the surface. I think the sun would be more of an issue. Plus, there's the element of privacy and some protection while one sleeps -- especially with Dorma with him.

How about that business of Dorma being able to breathe air via surgery? I think that got dumped later also.

I've said this before, but since we see it again here, I'll repeat. We see Namor interacting and dealing with women (Fen and Dorma) in an everyday, positive fashion, much more than in other books, where the "side-kicks" and companions are male.

[Thor-El]

This issue was awesomely packed with clever action and adventure! After defeating the Nazi aerial attack Namor requests permission to question the Nazi commander that is in the French's custody. The French are very grateful from Namor and are more than happy to let him see the prisoner, they even ask if he is going to stay longer, a marked difference from their scared reaction when Namor first arrived on the island. Once in the prisoner's cell Namor comes in with his mask on and the prisoner receives him with bravado telling he is not frightened by his silly costume but once Namor removes his mask the prisoner recognizing him from the foreign newspapers articles about his attacks to New York, gets terrified and gives Namor all the information he was after. With the intel he receives from the Nazi commander Namor goes to work instructing Dorma to go home and assemble a squadron of aerial subs and bring them to Casca Islands which is close to the secret submarine base the Nazi have hidden on a small island twenty miles from the coast of Florida. So Dorma goes on to her mission and we follow Namor's adventure into the hidden submarine Nazi base. What follows is a series of scenes which reminded me much of the Arnold Schwarzenegger movie Commando. Namor waits in hiding until the night to go into the camp and silently subdues the night guards one by one, ties all the submarines together in line with steel cables, then brakes into a small arsenal and steals some hand grenades and retreats to a small nearby cave with full view of the sea to spend the rest of the night. The next morning he receives the smoke signal from Casca Island letting him know Dorma and Lt Folma are ready awaiting his instructions. Namor starts to hurl the grenades he stole waking up the confused Nazi camp, then swims to Casca Island and directs his aerial subs to were the Nazi camp is tying the disabled Nazi subs he has linked to the steel cable to his aerial subs and towing them all helplessly in line from the harbor out to sea. Inside the Nazi submarines there is a complete bedlam and amid the confusion the crew donning artificial lungs leave the speeding death traps. Namor heads back to the French island with his stolen line of Nazi submarines which he handles to the French General.



The above are selected scans that highlight the main points of a story to generate discussion in a forum. You can read the complete story by purchasing the Marvel Masterworks: Golden Age Marvel Comics Vol. 4 (Marvel Mystery Comics #13–16) or any other available reprints.
http://www.amazon.com/Marvel-Masterw...KV8Z84HAT78TE3

[Mantis Girl 94]

Another great post Thor-Ey! Loved that Namor was featured on the cover in all his glory. He is tough, cracking that guys neck while still shooting that big gun!

Now that he has involved himself in the war; I wonder if all the stories are WW2 based after this?? I will enjoy them but I think I will miss the randomness of the earlier serial type stories

[Thor-El]

Another great post Thor-Ey! Loved that Namor was featured on the cover in all his glory. He is tough, cracking that guys neck while still shooting that big gun!

Now that he has involved himself in the war; I wonder if all the stories are WW2 based after this?? I will enjoy them but I think I will miss the randomness of the earlier serial type stories

I don't know. I'm enjoying the War stories as much as the non war stories. I think there is some Lynne and Luther story coming up which is not a war story. Also that month of December 1940 he starts being published as a backup of the Human Torch comics. I don't have access to those reprints, wish somebody else could start putting highlight scans of those at the same time so we had the complete chronology. The image below is an add published in Marvel Mystery Comics #14 announcing the Sub-mariner adventures in Human Torch comics.



Per Marvel Comics Index besides Marvel Mystery Comics Namor appears in:
Quote:
"
Sub-Mariner 1-42
Human Torch Comics 1-33, 36-38
All Winners Comics 1-19, 21 and second series #1
All Select Comics 1-5, 10
Blonde Phantom Comics 13-15, 17-22
Daring Comics 9-12
Captain America Comics 20, 68 and 70
Young Men 24-28
Men's adventures 27, 28
Namora Comics 1-3
Kid Comics 4

For a total of 292 Golden Age stories (as counted by Mike Nolan in his handy Timely Comics Index, now long out of print)."

[Thor-El]

I think so. The first one, definitely is by Everett. I didn't get a chance to read the omnibus and figure out where it goes, though. Maybe tomorrow.

Ah, yes, the Space Alien Namor by Will Pfeiffer? I think that's his name. Those were done when Everett went to war.

I have to notice Mr. Everett seemingly anti war stand with Namor closing speech on issue #13. Although this ended up being a very necessary war against a very real evil. Have to read that interview of Everett from Alter Ego, its on my cell phone as a PDF waiting for a free moment. That's my safe reading in case I have to wait at a doctor's office for someone or at a car mechanic.

[Reviresco]

That IS a great story! I love Namor hauling a chained line of subs to another island. Pure awesome.

I also love how polite Namor is in French. LOL!

Another great post Thor-Ey! Loved that Namor was featured on the cover in all his glory. He is tough, cracking that guys neck while still shooting that big gun!

Now that he has involved himself in the war; I wonder if all the stories are WW2 based after this?? I will enjoy them but I think I will miss the randomness of the earlier serial type stories

I don't know. I'm enjoying the War stories as much as the non war stories. I think there is some Lynne and Luther story coming up which is not a war story.

I'm not sure if all the stories for the next couple of years, but even the war stories are not all just simple war stories. I remember one about the dreaded Nazi Zombie Menance! Duh duh duuunnnnn!

I have to notice Mr. Everett seemingly anti war stand with Namor closing speech on issue #13. Although this ended up being a very necessary war against a very real evil. Have to read that interview of Everett from Alter Ego, its on my cell phone as a PDF waiting for a free moment. That's my safe reading in case I have to wait at a doctor's office for someone or at a car mechanic.

I'm not sure ... Despite the Cap 75th Anniversary Special's claim, Everett was the first at Timely to have a superhero fight Nazis ... back in MMC 3 or 4. But there was definitely a large portion of the US that didn't want to have anything to do with the war -- until Pearl Harbor, of course. So maybe Everett was covering both bases?

But it also works as an attitude of Namor as an outsider / 'utopian' society who doesn't understand the 'madness" of the surface dwellers.