Omega Shenron vs. Beerus

[NK1988]

We have several cases of stronger characters doing less damage with charged attacks. For example, Tenshinhan, with a move stronger than the Kamehameha (according to Roshi himself), and a power level higher than Roshi's ever was, only destroyed the World Martial Arts Tournament ring. Roshi meanwhile had destroyed:
1. a mountain
2. the moon

So, I say it's a similar situation to that. It's all about proper ki control. Maybe Baby has it while Goku and Cell didn't.

[Anarchist]

As explained in the Cell Saga this is impossible since by then any Kamehameha style attack aimed at Earth will blow it up.

It didn't blow up when Buu deflected SSJ3-Gokus kamehameha.

Also, this beam-logic is pretty weird to say at best.
People claim DB-chars can controll the AoE of their attacks, and that *bigger explosion is not more powerful*
Well, what sense does it even make to categorise DB-characters as moon busters/planet busters in the traditional sense then?

Take Roshi for example, I highly doubt that any rational person would put him at a higher level of pure damage output then, say, Post-Crisis Superman or Thor.

[abmccray]

Kamehamehas drill and then explode what they hit, for the most part. If it's aimed down at the planet from a heightened position, it will blow up the planet past a certain power. This, once they get to a certain point, they have to be careful about aiming them down. Gohan was scared of going all out with his LATERALLY to the planet in fear of blowing it up by accident, even.

Buu's deflection didn't hit the planet at the right angle to destroy it.

There are other explosive blasts similar to the kamehameha; the garlic gun, big bang attack, and a few others. There are other things that are stronger, the dodonpa, for instance, that don't have the same drill > explode properties of the attack Roshi created.

[Hazard]

We have several cases of stronger characters doing less damage with charged attacks. For example, Tenshinhan, with a move stronger than the Kamehameha (according to Roshi himself), and a power level higher than Roshi's ever was, only destroyed the World Martial Arts Tournament ring. Roshi meanwhile had destroyed:
1. a mountain
2. the moon

So, I say it's a similar situation to that. It's all about proper ki control. Maybe Baby has it while Goku and Cell didn't.

That means nothing since what matters is the type of attack used.

He didn't use a Tri-beam or a Kiezan.

He used a Kamehameha-type move aimed right at Earth. Only one outcome there.

It didn't blow up when Buu deflected SSJ3-Gokus kamehameha.

Goku's Kamehameha went right through Buu and didn't hit the Earth.

Buu's Kamehameha was turned into a ball type blast by Goku, hence becoming a different type of attack.

Also, this beam-logic is pretty weird to say at best.
People claim DB-chars can controll the AoE of their attacks, and that *bigger explosion is not more powerful*
Well, what sense does it even make to categorise DB-characters as moon busters/planet busters in the traditional sense then?

Take Roshi for example, I highly doubt that any rational person would put him at a higher level of pure damage output then, say, Post-Crisis Superman or Thor.

Roshi Max Power Kamehameha can bust a moon. That's a thing he can do since he's pretty badass and great at controlling Ki. However, he only has that much power in that mode doing that technique. He's a unique case since he's way past his prime by the time the manga starts.

For the other characters, well, what abmcray said. It's not really the first time this has to be explained in a DB thread.

[Ultra_Sonic]

On what tier is Dragon Ball Z Kai considered on this board? Kai is actually closer to the manga than the original anime.

[Hazard]

On what tier is Dragon Ball Z Kai considered on this board? Kai is actually closer to the manga than the original anime.

Depends on what do you mean when you say tier.

[Ultra_Sonic]

Depends on what do you mean when you say tier.

Even though DBZK is anime, it removes about 99% of the filler, and even Kai's dialogue was altered to match that of the manga.

[The Drunkard Kid]

I'd say that the point in the Cell saga was that Vegeta/Goku/Cell/Gohan were using full out blasts which people and people were pretty sure that they couldn't control those enough to avoid nuking the planet by accident rather than hitting a tipping point where anything at that level would automatically destroy the Earth, especially since they were all in SSJ mode (or at least using an SSJ aura in Cell's case), and its explicitly harder to control themselves and their power in that mode, even with tons of training.

It's like how Goku wasn't sure he could avoid blowing up the planet by accident with his Genki Dama against Frieza (and failed to do much beyond piss 50% Frieza off with it anyways), but could face Buu in a battle where the two of them were pretty much spitballing out attacks that could vaporize a dozen Friezas without destroying the planet outright unless they were deliberately trying to.

Also, to address an earlier point, Frieza's insane power levels, SSJ power jumps, and random Zenkai power jumps aren't plot holes. The former is a plot point, and the latter two are plot devices. I'm not fond of the latter two in general (or at least, not of the cardboardy golden hair replacing Goku's rather dynamic black hair, and I can't say what I really think about the designs for SSJ3 and SSJ4 without risking a permaban and Toriyama/Toei sending a hitsquad after me on general principal), but they are more or less internally consistent once they're shown to exist. I do kinda like SSJ God mode, pinkish-red hair and inexplicable deflation of musculature aside, its got an external source for the massive amounts of power it bequeaths on them, and once Goku gets used to it, it seems to be more of a point of view than a raw power jump. It feels closer to divine enlightenment rather than getting the Battery of the Gods (TM Earthworm Jim) lodged into Goku's spine.

[Daenarys Stormborn]

SO...based purely on feats with no power-scaling for either universe (DB or DBGT) who is the strongest character Omega could beat? What about Pan?

Also, I just remember UUB at the end of Dragonball. Was that suppose to be after Bills? Because it goes against anyone retaining God ki...

[Hazard]

Even though DBZK is anime, it removes about 99% of the filler, and even Kai's dialogue was altered to match that of the manga.

Again I ask you, what do you mean when you say tier? It wasn't a rhetorical question.

[Cody]

It's like how Goku wasn't sure he could avoid blowing up the planet by accident with his Genki Dama against Frieza (and failed to do much beyond piss 50% Frieza off with it anyways), but could face Buu in a battle where the two of them were pretty much spitballing out attacks that could vaporize a dozen Friezas without destroying the planet outright unless they were deliberately trying to

To be fair; said planet was near the size of a star as evident in the pics I posted above. So it would not be easy. I mean they probably could do it as AT went on record to say bills could have back when old kai pissed him off enough to get sealed into the Z sword(and back then Bills was weaker than fat Buu, according to the old kai) but still, it wouldn't be as easy as busting the Earth.

Scans I was referring to: http://lounge.moviecodec.com/images/...drew-23051.gif
http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2...B_Universe.jpg

I do kinda like SSJ God mode, pinkish-red hair and inexplicable deflation of musculature aside, its got an external source for the massive amounts of power it bequeaths on them, and once Goku gets used to it, it seems to be more of a point of view than a raw power jump. It feels closer to divine enlightenment rather than getting the Battery of the Gods (TM Earthworm Jim) lodged into Goku's spine.

Shame we will probably not see it again as he absorbed it's power inside of himself. He will basically be only using ssj"1" from now on.

SO...based purely on feats with no power-scaling for either universe (DB or DBGT) who is the strongest character Omega could beat? What about Pan?

With absolutely no use of any of the movie or filler feats for GT? Omega Shenron couldn't even beat Frieza. While Pan wouldn't stand a chance against Roshi.

Also, I just remember UUB at the end of Dragonball. Was that suppose to be after Bills? Because it goes against anyone retaining God ki...

Goku wasn't going all out in their fight. And despite his clothes being torn up a bit he wasn't wounded, tired, or even hurt in the slightest. So it doesn't really go against anything.

[Ultra_Sonic]

Again I ask you, what do you mean when you say tier? It wasn't a rhetorical question.

When it comes to DBZ canon, the manga is the highest tier, followed by the anime. My question is where does the Kai anime fall into this ladder?

[Hazard]

When it comes to DBZ canon, the manga is the highest tier, followed by the anime. My question is where does the Kai anime fall into this ladder?

Okay then.

Primary canon is the manga, Yo Son Goku and Friends Return and BoG. Also the newest movie that's going to come out next year too.

Let's put Kai here.

Then you have the anime.

Then you have the movies.

Then you have GT.

In theory, being canon or not canon doesn't really matter. In fact the lower you got the better deal you should get because you get all the feats (Movie characters absorb manga and anime feats). The deal with GT is not so much canon accuracy as it is feat consistency.

[Cody]

Okay then.

Primary canon is the manga, Yo Son Goku and Friends Return and BoG. Also the newest movie that's going to come out next year too.

Let's put Kai here.

Then you have the anime.

Then you have the movies.

Then you have GT.

In theory, being canon or not canon doesn't really matter. In fact the lower you got the better deal you should get because you get all the feats (Movie characters absorb manga and anime feats). The deal with GT is not so much canon accuracy as it is feat consistency.

Kai is more or less in the same tier as the manga really. The only added bits in it were ones added by AT himself. And none of them really contradict the manga in any way shape or form.

[Anarchist]

Well yeah, I think some of them do.

Kid Gohan (withoutany rage power-up) managing to actually hurt (let alone TAG) 100% Perfect Frieza in this nonsensical *Gohan leaves Piccolo and Bulma in the spaceship to fight Frieza again just for the heck of it*-subplot.

Oh, and wasn't the Bardock-bit also retconned?