Omega Shenron vs. Beerus

[Dark Soul # 7]

Does Omega Shenron have any strength feat on par with Goku punching a hole through King Kai's planet, which is dense enough to have ten times earth's gravity?

Because Bills kinda shruggs when hit with that level of strength.

Also, note that that is a serious question as I have never seen GT.

[big_adventure]

Does Omega Shenron have any strength feat on par with Goku punching a hole through King Kai's planet, which is dense enough to have ten times earth's gravity?

Because Bills kinda shruggs when hit with that level of strength.

Also, note that that is a serious question as I have never seen GT.

He has feats for bitch-slapping a couple of SSJ4's. That's about as good as it gets for the dragon. So his strength is all about what you think SSJ4 means.

[Hazard]

Does Omega Shenron have any strength feat on par with Goku punching a hole through King Kai's planet, which is dense enough to have ten times earth's gravity?

Because Bills kinda shruggs when hit with that level of strength.

Best striking feat in GT is SSJ Goku punching Super 17 to the other side of the continent. That's pretty much it. SSJ4 Goku is a notch above that and Omega Shenron is another level on top of that.

[NK1988]

Anime filler.

As has been pointed out, Anime introduced a lot of plotholes. The scene is just SMvsFL.

Really, you're arguing for Base Goku's toughness when GT Base Goku has failed to lift buildings.

Kid Goku is like, 3 feet tall and he was trying to hold up a skyscraper. It's not a matter of strength, it's a matter of proportion and leverage.

And filler is perfectly acceptable in a series based on anime. It be like saying stuff in the later half of FMA '03 isn't allowed in a thread debating FMA '03.

[Hazard]

Kid Goku is like, 3 feet tall and he was trying to hold up a skyscraper. It's not a matter of strength, it's a matter of proportion and leverage.

But somehow adding three feet more did the job? Sorry, doesn't work that way.

It is a strength deal and he is failing to perform.

And filler is perfectly acceptable in a series based on anime. It be like saying stuff in the later half of FMA '03 isn't allowed in a thread debating FMA '03.

Not really.

SMvsFL is SMvsFL.

Just because the anime decided to use it doesn't mean it suddenly makes sense

[Awesome-X]

Correct me if I'm wrong (I haven't watched GT in a while), but wasn't Omega Shenron beating the ever loving **** out of SSJ4 Goku and Vegeta, who are both well above a SSJ3?

Yes, SS4 is far above SS3. Even SS1 Goku & Vegeta (GT) would be far above a SS3 such as Goku during the Buu saga. SS4 Goku/Vegeta could completely Ignore that SS3 Goku. It would be like the Nail vs Frieza fight.

[The Drunkard Kid]

But somehow adding three feet more did the job? Sorry, doesn't work that way.

It is a strength deal and he is failing to perform.

Not to mention that Goku can fly, and anime Goku having enough TK to lift up a mesa/mountain while still heavily injured after the first fight against Vegeta.

The reason why DBGT isn't just automatically handwaved the feats from DB/Z is because DB/Z were based off of the actual work of Akira Toriyama, while DBGT was, outside of some character designs, made wholecloth by Toei, which resulted in weird things like Pan being simultaneously less powerful than Kid (Adult) Goku and keeping up with SSJ4 Goku in the fight against at least one of the evil Shen Longs, or Goku (or was it Pan?) needing the Kamehameha to punch a hole through the bottom of a lake, or Goku continuously using energy blasts against a being that he knew absorbed energy blasts (and unlike the last time he did that once, he wasn't suffering from a heart attack this time around), Gohan regaining SSJ after having it explicitly said that using the same effort to go SSJ is how he accessed his unnamed Mystic power-up, or Vegeta's change in hairstyle despite he himself being the person that said that pure Saiyajin hairstyles are pretty much permanent (though that's kinda a grey area since his hair could just have been taking time to grow in), or humanity moving to planet Plant at the end of the series (IIRC) which should have 10 times Earth's gravity, or even Goku being affected by a Dragon Ball wish at all since he was hilariously more powerful than any of the people who could have been fueling it.

[master of read]

But somehow adding three feet more did the job? Sorry, doesn't work that way.

It is a strength deal and he is failing to perform.




Not really.

SMvsFL is SMvsFL.

Just because the anime decided to use it doesn't mean it suddenly makes sense

pretty much. i mean, goku was moving that giant rock around when he was a kid (legitimately) and has gotten progressively stronger since. so i find it hard to believe that he would have that much trouble with a building since he should be physically strong enough to do it easily. that's like hulk having shown he can lift a mountain and then later on having trouble with a VW beetle.

[NK1988]

Not to mention that Goku can fly, and anime Goku having enough TK to lift up a mesa/mountain while still heavily injured after the first fight against Vegeta.

The reason why DBGT isn't just automatically handwaved the feats from DB/Z is because DB/Z were based off of the actual work of Akira Toriyama, while DBGT was, outside of some character designs, made wholecloth by Toei, which resulted in weird things like Pan being simultaneously less powerful than Kid (Adult) Goku and keeping up with SSJ4 Goku in the fight against at least one of the evil Shen Longs, or Goku (or was it Pan?) needing the Kamehameha to punch a hole through the bottom of a lake, or Goku continuously using energy blasts against a being that he knew absorbed energy blasts (and unlike the last time he did that once, he wasn't suffering from a heart attack this time around), Gohan regaining SSJ after having it explicitly said that using the same effort to go SSJ is how he accessed his unnamed Mystic power-up, or Vegeta's change in hairstyle despite he himself being the person that said that pure Saiyajin hairstyles are pretty much permanent (though that's kinda a grey area since his hair could just have been taking time to grow in), or humanity moving to planet Plant at the end of the series (IIRC) which should have 10 times Earth's gravity, or even Goku being affected by a Dragon Ball wish at all since he was hilariously more powerful than any of the people who could have been fueling it.

Except it doesn't matter if DBZ was based off AT's work, filler is no different than GT. There is no difference between Goku being hurt by that tiny rock thrown by Krillin and anything in GT. It's all Toei's invention. If you accept one, you should have to accept the other. "Toei" is the author that takes precedence here.

As for why Goku didn't use his telekinesis on the building, same reason Piccolo pretty much always forgets he can stretch his arms. Or if you want an in-universe reason, Goku couldn't use his more exotic abilities like IT while in his child form. Maybe it's the same for his TK.

[Hazard]

Except it doesn't matter if DBZ was based off AT's work, filler is no different than GT. There is no difference between Goku being hurt by that tiny rock thrown by Krillin and anything in GT. It's all Toei's invention. If you accept one, you should have to accept the other. "Toei" is the author that takes precedence here.

Good example of a SMvsFL feat.

Only problem is that there aren't really high showings in GT to compare it to so GT is stuck with what it has.

[master of read]

personally i just see GT as glorified fanfiction.

[The Chou Lives]

personally i just see GT as glorified fanfiction.

This.

The feats just do not match up to what tier these guys are supposed to be at.And it's Toei. Not AT.

[Saitou Hajime]

To be as fair as one might, SSJ2-but-mad-enough-to-be-above-SSJ3-Goku Vegeta did better against Beerus - actually pressed him a little bit, before losing. Observing Z-fighers, Vegeta and Goku himself all stated that Vegeta had surpassed Goku at that point.

Well, Vegeta is a pet character of Watanabe (BoG's co-writer) and was even supposed to be as big or bigger hero than Goku was in the original draft, so it's no surprise he got to look that good against Beerus.

And yes, SSJG Goku is clearly over SSJ3 Goku - but we don't know by exactly how much.

SSJG Goku is above Vegetto, who is like significantly above SSJ3 Goku.

According to Toriyama SSJG Goku is a 6, Beerus is a 10, and Whis is a 15, in terms of power gaps. There's a bit in one of the GT guide books that Buu saga Vegetto is around SSJ4 Goku's level circa Bebi Arc. So can we work with that?

[Guy1]

Does Omega Shenron have any strength feat on par with Goku punching a hole through King Kai's planet, which is dense enough to have ten times earth's gravity?

Because Bills kinda shruggs when hit with that level of strength.

Also, note that that is a serious question as I have never seen GT.

Baby Vegeta

Super 17

Shadow Dragons

[NK1988]

According to Toriyama SSJG Goku is a 6, Beerus is a 10, and Whis is a 15, in terms of power gaps. There's a bit in one of the GT guide books that Buu saga Vegetto is around SSJ4 Goku's level circa Bebi Arc. So can we work with that?

They don't specify which form of Vegito though. For all we know, they could have been saying SSJ4 Goku was about the same level as SSJ3 Vegito.

SSJ4 Goku was absolutely no threat to Omega though. Plain old Syn Shenron was far stronger than him and Omega is 10x stronger than Syn.

We have "never sensed this much power before" kind of quotes to compare.

Goku says when he attains SSJG that he never imagined this kind of power before. So SSJG Goku would appear to be stronger than Super Vegito at the very least.

Yet in GT we have Goku asaying that, in regards to Super Baby Vegeta, he had never felt a ki this large before.

So...make of all that what you will.