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  1. #61
    Mighty Member moonknight11's Avatar
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    There's also GT Kid Goku completely stomping cell which puts him equal to Base DBZ Goku at least (on the basis of the match with Pikkon who also lolstomped Cell).

    Did Ki Blasts not go to space in DBGT?

  2. #62
    Truth and Conviction Hazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moonknight11 View Post
    There's also GT Kid Goku completely stomping cell which puts him equal to Base DBZ Goku at least (on the basis of the match with Pikkon who also lolstomped Cell).
    Which would be nice, if that didn't rely on power scale.

    Really, the point is the characters are weaker.

    Like I said there wouldn't be a problem if they performed at even okay levels, but GT has too many low ends (Goku failing to lift a building, Baby failing to blow up Earth despite supposedly being massively more powerful than any other bad guy before, etc. )

    Edit: Also, let's not pretend Pikkon's power level makes the slightest bit of sense.

    Did Ki Blasts not go to space in DBGT?
    Not to the same extend with one exception. Cell Saga also gives a good enough visuals to know how fast they are going.
    Last edited by Hazard; 10-29-2014 at 12:54 PM.
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  3. #63
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    People can say power scale all they want but it doesn't change the fact that GT by design doesn't exist in a vacuum and everything from DBZ still counts as relevant feats.

  4. #64
    Astonishing Member The Drunkard Kid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lancerman View Post
    People can say power scale all they want but it doesn't change the fact that GT by design doesn't exist in a vacuum and everything from DBZ still counts as relevant feats.
    By that logic, Post Crisis Darkseid has all the feats of Pre Crisis Darkseid because they are explicitly the same character since Darkseid actually side-stepped the Crisis on Infinity Earths. Regardless of the fact that they were written completely differently, and worked on completely different scales.

  5. #65
    Legendary God of Pirates Nik Hasta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lancerman View Post
    People can say power scale all they want but it doesn't change the fact that GT by design doesn't exist in a vacuum and everything from DBZ still counts as relevant feats.
    I've always thought of GT as it's own continuity. It's not that it's non-canon, it's just it's clearly a different animal to DBZ. Different writing team, different lead creative director, different setting, different apparent approach to portraying the levels of power at play and so on.

    It doesn't exist in a vacuum but it also drastically alters the status quo for Dragonball both within the internal consistency of the fictional universe but also in the metatextual area of feats and character portrayal. You can't really handwave differences like that.

  6. #66
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    Toriyama did state that he chose the particular era which BoG is set in because that was when the characters were at their prime power-wise, implying that they were weaker in the 10 year time skip and beyond.

  7. #67
    Mighty Member abmccray's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moonknight11 View Post
    There's also GT Kid Goku completely stomping cell which puts him equal to Base DBZ Goku at least (on the basis of the match with Pikkon who also lolstomped Cell).

    Did Ki Blasts not go to space in DBGT?
    Okay, yeah, that Cell who palled around with FREEZA to try to come up with some way to defeat Goku? THAT Cell?

    - Cell contains Freeza's Cells; what does he need Freeza for?
    - Cell is around 10 jumps more powerful than Freeza and can defeat him by coughing on him funny
    - Cell has zenkais and can progress at a faster rate than Goku in powerups
    - Cell absorbs weaker people for miniscule powerups, and would definitely absorb Freeza
    - Cell can technically teleport wherever the hell he wants since he has Goku's teleport and movies let you leave the afterlife at will with it.

    -That- is the Cell that kid Goku had no problem with, the one that breaks multiple rules of the series and levels of common sense. I don't think that guy really counts...

    (Note that villains don't retain their bodies when they die to avoid things like, I dunno, CELL TAKING OVER THE AFTERLIFE AND DESTROYING THE UNIVERSE, when Toriyama writes them)
    Last edited by abmccray; 10-30-2014 at 04:48 AM.

  8. #68
    Mighty Member moonknight11's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by abmccray View Post
    Okay, yeah, that Cell who palled around with FREEZA to try to come up with some way to defeat Goku? THAT Cell?

    - Cell contains Freeza's Cells; what does he need Freeza for?
    - Cell is around 10 jumps more powerful than Freeza and can defeat him by coughing on him funny
    - Cell has zenkais and can progress at a faster rate than Goku in powerups
    - Cell absorbs weaker people for miniscule powerups, and would definitely absorb Freeza
    - Cell can technically teleport wherever the hell he wants since he has Goku's teleport and movies let you leave the afterlife at will with it.

    -That- is the Cell that kid Goku had no power with, the one that breaks multiple rules of the series and levels of common sense. I don't think that guy really counts...

    (Note that villains don't retain their bodies when they die to avoid things like, I dunno, CELL TAKING OVER THE AFTERLIFE AND DESTROYING THE UNIVERSE, when Toriyama writes them)
    Take that complaint up with the DBZ anime as well where Pikkon/Goku beat up another Cell and Frieza (and King Cold and the Ginyu Force) team up. Or that one movie where the underworld emptied and suddenly all villains had their bodies again.

  9. #69
    Truth and Conviction Hazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moonknight11 View Post
    Take that complaint up with the DBZ anime as well where Pikkon/Goku beat up another Cell and Frieza (and King Cold and the Ginyu Force) team up. Or that one movie where the underworld emptied and suddenly all villains had their bodies again.
    They teamed up to take over the underworld once a sufficiently strong guy appeared (Cell). While that has its own issues, it makes some degree of sense.

    In GT these two specifically team up to fight Goku for some reason.
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  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by abmccray View Post
    Okay, yeah, that Cell who palled around with FREEZA to try to come up with some way to defeat Goku? THAT Cell?

    - Cell contains Freeza's Cells; what does he need Freeza for?
    An extra 120,000,000. Having Freeza's cells does not mean Cell has an extra 120,000,000 meat shield.

    - Cell has zenkais and can progress at a faster rate than Goku in powerups
    Cell got ONE Zenkai in his entire career and it was a fluke. Otherwise he could have just kept blowing himself up indefinitely until he was SSJ10 level.

    And there is another inconsistency for you people worshiping the Great Toriyama. Perfect Cell, after he gets his top half blown off by the Insta-Kamehameha, regenerates. Only, he has Namekian regen which requires a huge load of ki to perform. After regrowing his upper self he was WAYYYYY weaker. He sure didn't get a Zenkai from that. So how is it Super Perfect Cell only got stronger when he had to regrow his entire body when just regrowing his head and torso drained him badly?

    Not even getting into the fact the Nucleus that lets him regen was in his head...which Goku destroyed...

    You can try and plug your ears all you want but DB has always been rife with inconsistency.
    Last edited by NK1988; 10-29-2014 at 08:23 PM.

  11. #71
    Truth and Conviction Hazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NK1988 View Post
    An extra 120,000,000. Having Freeza's cells does not mean Cell has an extra 120,000,000 meat shield.
    Which would be pretty worthless. It's also a fact, he wasn't using him as a meatshield. They even came up with their signature technique together and everything.

    Really, Cell can spawn better meatshields.

    Cell got ONE Zenkai in his entire career and it was a fluke. Otherwise he could have just kept blowing himself up indefinitely until he was SSJ10 level.
    It was a fluke he survived.

    Zenkai are a thing he gets due to Saiyan Cells.

    And yes. Yes, he could have.

    That's why people don't get to keep their bodies in hell in the manga.

    And there is another inconsistency for you people worshiping the Great Toriyama. Perfect Cell, after he gets his top half blown off by the Insta-Kamehameha, regenerates. Only, he has Namekian regen which requires a huge load of ki to perform. After regrowing his upper self he was WAYYYYY weaker. He sure didn't get a Zenkai from that. So how is it Super Perfect Cell only got stronger when he had to regrow his entire body when just regrowing his head and torso drained him badly?

    Not even getting into the fact the Nucleus that lets him regen was in his head...which Goku destroyed...

    You can try and plug your ears all you want but DB has always been rife with inconsistency.
    None of what you said takes away GT having plain more inconsistencies and low end feats.
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  12. #72
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    I like that they call it "God Ki". Never change Dragonball Z.

  13. #73
    The Undead One The Chou Lives's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NK1988 View Post
    An extra 120,000,000. Having Freeza's cells does not mean Cell has an extra 120,000,000 meat shield.



    Cell got ONE Zenkai in his entire career and it was a fluke. Otherwise he could have just kept blowing himself up indefinitely until he was SSJ10 level.

    And there is another inconsistency for you people worshiping the Great Toriyama. Perfect Cell, after he gets his top half blown off by the Insta-Kamehameha, regenerates. Only, he has Namekian regen which requires a huge load of ki to perform. After regrowing his upper self he was WAYYYYY weaker. He sure didn't get a Zenkai from that. So how is it Super Perfect Cell only got stronger when he had to regrow his entire body when just regrowing his head and torso drained him badly?

    Not even getting into the fact the Nucleus that lets him regen was in his head...which Goku destroyed...

    You can try and plug your ears all you want but DB has always been rife with inconsistency.

    It was in his head, but Goku's blast was not strong enough to fry said regenfactor.

    And Cell gotpower p becuase he regened hiswhole body, with Sayian/Namek fusion which made him Super Perfect Cell.

    Hence difference in regen accounts as Cell wa spushed to that much of a limit and it paid off. A fluke yes, but not without reasoning.

  14. #74
    Rumbles Moderator Guy1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Surtur View Post
    I like that they call it "God Ki". Never change Dragonball Z.
    Well Sacred Energy was a thing in YYH.
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  15. #75
    Astonishing Member The Drunkard Kid's Avatar
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    Zenkais being useful are pretty much a fluke anytime it happens. You can "merely" go from Nappa level to Ginyu level after tons of zenkai, or Ginyu level to Form 4 Frieza level in one jump, pretty much at random.

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