Wonder Woman #35 SPOILERS

[borntohula]

I just read WW#35 together with WW#Secret origins. If WW#33 felt The empire strikes back then WW#35 feels like Return of the Jedi, but skipping the teddy-dwarfs' celebration. Which is all good if you ask me

What's essentially celebrated instead are young women getting to try their ways, on their own, with the world.

-Poseidon makes a grab for the throne as everyone else is occupied on Paradise island.
-Zola turned out to be Athena, reborn. Slits Posedion's eye and says Zeke will have the throne.
-Zeke is revealed to be Zeus. Athena saying he was tired of what he'd become, or perhaps amused by it. Wanting to be reborn.
-Diana goes all Wonder Woman on First Born. While tying him up, telling him that: "You scream for love, First born. Yet you know nothing of it. Love required compassion. Nurturing. And above all. Submission!"
-Zeus is put back on the throne, and lightning hits. First born and Diana falls down a pit on a piece of rock. Diana helps him up and First born asks if she offers him love. Diana says she offers him tough love, and throws him down the pit asking him to understand that "Submission is faith in the strength of others.", hoping he'll learn as he one day will climb up.
-Zeus is still a baby on the throne and Zola is still Athena. Diana asks about Zola, and Athena says she slept inside of her, as her true nature.
-Diana asks her to stay Zola. For Zeke. Given how First born turned out (and the rest of Zeke's children) when love wasn't there. For everyone's sake Athena leaves Zola's body, and flies away as an owl.
-Diana says thanks to Athena. Zola asks "Who?"

A question that brings things the story to Secret origins
-Diana spars with Aleka. Says she wants to leave the island, in hopes of becoming something more than just a princess.
-Being ashamed of wanting to leave Athena comes into her life and reveals herself. Saying she has nothing to be ashamed of, and that she has Athena's support.
-Athena then gives her some wind by handing her Trevor, whom Diana uses a ticket to man's world. And thus things go full circle.

So what did I think of it? As usual, I really liked it. And as usual, it surprised to no end. While there are things that'll have to sink it, I think it all floats (which some readers probably will think is because this run is brown and stinky haha.) really well.

Especially how Diana tells Athena about Zola, that she: "--is kind. She is clever. She is honorable and forgiving and witty and every life she's touched is better because in the midst of chaos, she showed us humanity." asking Athena to choose love above else. No matter what Zola truly was, it's what she is that matters. And the same goes for Diana (Clay or not.).

And as usual it didn't tell all but -and perhaps too much at times- showing things instead. Essentially relying on the reader. But for those who doesn't like that, it gives plenty of opportunity for the next writers to build upon and expand. And I really think identity is a thing the book really opens up a can of worms of/for, and then rises it in celebration. A torch I hope the next team carries with them.

Something it also opens up is my copy of WW vol.1 Blood with things gone full circle

In short. (sorry for editing this post as much as I have.)

Pros:
-A lot of stuff that can be discussed and given theories!
-Reveals the aim with the story.
-Great phasing.
-Lovely ending with Diana and Zola. Also the up note one with Diana visiting "man's world", with Steve (needing to leave) as her ticket to ride.

Cons:
-Too much stuff can be discussed and given theories? (not sure everyone will want to.)
-No lovely ending between Diana and Hippolyta. (but then, perhaps something for the next teams)

Question:
I wonder if Azzarello and Chiang could'v been a bit more selfish with some of the story. Perhaps closing some more doors than just leaving them open. Perhaps it's the out they felt they needed to be as inclusive as possible for both readers (new as old as returning) and future writers, so that the character didn't get stuck. Or perhaps it's just Azzarello's way of writing longer stories.

[enish]

Oh Great Zeus!

DO NOT READ IF YOU DON'T WANT TO!
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
I won't be saying much at this time, but it's not as sad as some have said it would be!

I guess a lot of people know who the baby is. It was all part of a plan.

Okay, i'll just say this, because it's too much a thing to keep for myself:
- Wonder Woman goes God mode, but with a nice twist.
- Zola is Athena reborn in a mortal body. Zeus is the baby. I won't go into the detail of this, because the revelation is not all, the reasons why are more important.
- Some one dies, another one survives!

BUT there still are unresolved things, Hyppolita's condition (and why she couldn't be restored by Hera), Hades (is he really dead? What becomes of the underworld now?) among other things.

It's a nice ending though, I like it, and it's emotional too!

[Silvanus]

I just read WW#35 together with WW#Secret origins. If WW#33 felt The empire strikes back then WW#35 feels like Return of the Jedi, but skipping the teddy-dwarfs' celebration. Which is all good if you ask me

What's essentially celebrated instead are young women getting to try their ways, on their own, with the world.

-Poseidon makes a grab for the throne as everyone else is occupied on Paradise island.
-Zola turned out to be Athena, reborn. Slits Posedion's eye and says Zeke will have the throne.
-Zeke is revealed to be Zeus. Athena saying he was tired of what he'd become, or perhaps amused by it. Wanting to be reborn.
-Diana goes all Wonder Woman on First Born. While tying him up, telling him that: "You scream for love, First born. Yet you know nothing of it. Love required compassion. Nurturing. And above all. Submission!"
-Zeus is put back on the throne, and lightning hits. First born and Diana falls down a pit on a piece of rock. Diana helps him up and First born asks if she offers him love. Diana says she offers him tough love, and throws him down the pit asking him to understand that "Submission is faith in the strength of others.", hoping he'll learn as he one day will climb up.
-Zeus is still a baby on the throne and Zola is still Athena. Diana asks about Zola, and Athena says she slept inside of her, as her true nature.
-Diana asks her to stay Zola. For Zeke. Given how First born turned out (and the rest of Zeke's children) when love wasn't there. For everyone's sake Athena leaves Zola's body, and flies away as an owl.
-Diana says thanks to Athena. Zola asks "Who?"

A question that brings things the story to Secret origins
-Diana spars with Aleka. Says she wants to leave the island, in hopes of becoming something more than just a princess.
-Being ashamed of wanting to leave Athena comes into her life and reveals herself. Saying she has nothing to be ashamed of, and that she has Athena's support.
-Athena then brings her Trevor. Whom Diana uses a ticket to man's world.

Plot-wise, this finale leaves a lot of threads dangling. no doubt. But I guess the run was always more about character and themes than plot. At that level, it make sense to me that Wonder Woman's greatest strengths here are mercy and compassion, which finally inspire the Minotaur--who looks more like the #0 version under his hood--to return the favor she showed him.

Zeka being Zeus was a very unsurprising surprise, and disappointing in a way; it was so telegraphed that we've been guessing it since issue 1, and I'd been thinking for a while that it was too obvious and Azzarello might have something else up his sleeve. But I'm glad that he didn't fast age; it seems like although he's really Zeus, he's also really Zeke--an actual baby who needs his mother.

Who's actually going to rule Olympus? I guess there will be a regent acting on Zeke's behalf--Hera or maybe Athena?

I'm a little uncomfortable with the idea that Zeus' plan actually worked. I expected Diana to need to defy her father's plan, not fulfill it. But then again, maybe when Zeus was only Zeus and not Zeke, he didn't actually plan on Zola becoming a real person, who may raise his new incarnation to be more human then he ever counted on--so maybe, by her request of Athena, she put her on spin on the plan after all.

I really didn't want Zola to be Athena, and I see that I was wrong to think that Azz wouldn't go down that road. But he did it in a way that still leaves us with a human Zola in the end, which is what matters. And her talk about submission, int he best sense of the word, seemed like a real homage to Marston.

I'm curious to look back see if there are moments in past issues that take on new meaning now that we know the truth about Zola. One that comes to mind is the scene in which Dionysus tells Zola she reminds him of someone. I guess he meant Athena. I wonder if Apollo had figured out who was within Zola, so being with Athena was the "stake" he offered Dionysus.

The good thing about the dangling threads is that they offer lots for the Finches, or future teams, to follow up on. i'm encouraged that Meredith Finch has said she plans to address some of what was unfinished in Azzarello's run, especially regarding the Amazons. We'll see.

Meanwhile, it was, of course, an imperfect end to an imperfect run--but nothing's perfect, and this was the most fun I've had following a monthly comic since Sandman. And maybe the best time I've had reading Wonder Woman ever, or at least since I was a kid.

[borntohula]

Plot-wise, this finale leaves a lot of threads dangling. no doubt. But I guess the run was always more about character and themes than plot. At that level, it make sense to me that Wonder Woman's greatest strengths here are mercy and compassion, which finally inspire the Minotaur--who looks more like the #0 version under his hood--to return the favor she showed him.

I think it also underscored how her mercy and compassion works, that it inspires. And can be quite a struggle.

The minotaur also made me think of Vader in Return of the Jedi. The "cow" comment was also quite cool with it's horns being sawed off, as if they would have made him "a man".

Zeka being Zeus was a very unsurprising surprise, and disappointing in a way; it was so telegraphed that we've been guessing it since issue 1, and I'd been thinking for a while that it was too obvious and Azzarello might have something else up his sleeve. But I'm glad the he didn't fast age; it seems like although he's really Zeus, he's also really Zeke--an actual baby who needs his mother.

Who's actually going to rule Olympus? I guess there will be a regent acting on Zeke's behalf--Hera or maybe Athena?

I like to think that the Amazons will end up as the guard of the throne with Hera on it, and nurturing Zeke till -perhaps- his day comes. Much how/since the run seems to celebrate the fact that while women aren't always leaders, they often have a very strong influence. At times even more than -that for example- their husbands understands or likes to admit

I'm a little uncomfortable with the idea that Zeus' plan actually worked. I expected Diana to need to defy her father's plan, not fulfill it. But then again, maybe when Zeus was only Zeus and not Zeke, he didn't actually plan on Zola becoming a real person, who may raise his new incarnation to be more human then he ever counted on--so maybe, by her request of Athena, she put her on spin on the plan after all.

But then, his true intents wasn't revealed either. Both being in line with this run's gods and one of it's messages: that the true nature or intentions of something perhaps isn't always for the best.

This also giving future writers something interesting to toy with. What to make out of Zeus. Encourage him to be what he was, or be something else -perhaps more?

But I'd like to know why Hippolyta was kept as clay.

I really didn't want Zola to be Athena, and I see that I was wrong to think that Azz wouldn't go down that road. But he did it in a way that still leaves us with a human Zola in the end, which is what matters. And her talk about submission, int he best sense of the word, seemed like a real homage to Marston.

I'm curious to look back see if there are moments in past issues that take on new meaning now that we know the truth about Zola. One that comes to mind is the scene in which Dionysus tells Zola she reminds him of someone. I guess he meant Athena. I wonder if Apollo had figured out who was within Zola, so being with Athena was the "stake" he offered Dionysus.

I really like how it played out. Instead of some epic ending it instead came to a really nice conclusion, that really worked itself into the beginning of the story.

The good thing about the dangling threads is that they offer lots for the Finches, or future teams, to follow up on. i'm encouraged that Meredith Finch has said she plans to address some of what was unfinished in Azzarello's run, especially regarding the Amazons. We'll see.

Meanwhile, it was, of course, an imperfect end to an imperfect run--but nothing's perfect, and this was the most fun I've had following a monthly comic since Sandman. And maybe the best time I've had reading Wonder Woman ever, or at least since I was a kid.

One thing that really comes to mind is Azzarello saying that they didn't want to outstay their welcome at the party.

I had my doubts. Not only about reading a super hero comic, also it being Wonder Woman. And drokk by Grudd am I happy to have being proven wrong. And while not perfect, it was a joy ride

[Silvanus]

But then, his true intents wasn't revealed either. Both being in line with this run's gods and one of it's messages: that the true nature or intentions of something perhaps isn't always for the best.

Yeah. At the same time, it's interesting that he seems to have started to put his plan in effect 20 years ago (with Athena's birth), just three years after he and Hippolyta "lovingly submitted" to each other. Maybe even though Hippolyta couldn't "keep" him (as she put), she--and Diana's conception--did change him, or at least leave him with a desire to change and to start over as someone more innocent.

And in a way Diana even influences Athena. IT's interesting how Secret origin has Athena say she has faith in Diana, and #35 says "faith in others" is the definition of submission. It seems like even though Diana is the one pleading with Athena in #35, its really Athena, by Azzarello's definition of "submission," who submits to Diana, and her faith in Diana leads her to leave her "Zola" self intact as a person in her own right.

I wonder if some other writer will make a "Wonder Girl" out of Zola. She's just human now, but some writer could decide that Athena left some residual power in her.

And as usual it didn't tell all but -and perhaps too much at times- showing things instead. Essentially relying on the reader.

Hmm...if the story relied on the readers and our abilities to fill in the gaps, and if "submission is faith in the strength of others," then I guess...Brian Azzarello lovingly submitted to us!

[wagthedog]

Not having read this issue or the 8 or so I missed after giving up on the run and comics in general, it seems a little cowardly to me that Azz did not address the sex pirate raids. It was to be sure a very shocking moment in issue 7 when they told us this, but from what you two have spoiled in this thread, it doesn't sound like he addresses this at all.

I don't think another creative team should follow up on this. Azz should have touched on this because it is a big, ugly red headed step child to be thrown upon.

[Dr. Hurt]

1. What was the point of all this? Athena becoming human and giving birth to her father and causing all this chaos?
2. So the FB trully was a big bad brute that needed a beating and not much strategy or outthinking. Greeeeaaaaat....
3. (since you mentioned the origin) Why would Trevor be a ticket? Maybe they'd hang him, or put him in jail. Or perhaps send him on his way, but why would Diana need to go with him? Hippolyta could just as easily have sent someone else with him.

You know what, it seems Azz had more interest in this constant back and forth and Zeke/Zola getting kidnapped and rescued every few issues, rather than explaining anything. Why was Trevor a ticket to Diana when the Amazons are bloodthirsty sex pirates? Logic dictates they'd rape and kill him. Why did Athena become human and give birth to Zeus, becoming vulnerable and requiring protection from WW and her friends, etc.

Because 4 years of blah, blah, blah and puns. That's why.

[borntohula]

Yeah. At the same time, it's interesting that he seems to have started to put his plan in effect 20 years ago (with Athena's birth), just three years after he and Hippolyta "lovingly submitted" to each other. Maybe even though Hippolyta couldn't "keep" him (as she put), she--and Diana's conception--did change him, or at least leave him with a desire to change and to start over as someone more innocent.

It also avoids things to become too much about him. But I think it's quite safe to say that he wanted to become better. And the fresh start of being reborn and raised by women perhaps was the fresh start he thought he needed. Perhaps First born's upbringing in the wild by a hyena bitch inspired him.

Hmm...if the story relied on the readers and our abilities to fill in the gaps, and if "submission is faith in the strength of others," then I guess...Brian Azzarello lovingly submitted to us!

haha. He also submitted to Diana. Which is quite something given his dislike of super heroes :P

Not having read this issue or the 8 or so I missed after giving up on the run and comics in general, it seems a little cowardly to me that Azz did not address the sex pirate raids. It was to be sure a very shocking moment in issue 7 when they told us this, but from what you two have spoiled in this thread, it doesn't sound like he addresses this at all.

I don't think another creative team should follow up on this. Azz should have touched on this because it is a big, ugly red headed step child to be thrown upon.

They do deal with it. Saying it's 1000 year old traditions (as in the myths), questioning if it's any longer needed. Also reforming the amazons towards integration of men.

There's also hints that ideas of "perfection" (which many think Diana without a father is) makes it stick. That they'd be PERFECT without men.

The reformation thing will most definitely see a follow up in future runs by other creative teams.

[Silvanus]

1. What was the point of all this? Athena becoming human and giving birth to her father and causing all this chaos?

Athena mentions a few possible points, but to me, the big one is that Zeus, like Ares, was sick of he had been, and he wanted to start over. It's probably not coincidental that he had this idea a couple of years after he and Hiipplyta had their moment of "absoulte control...given up"; Hippolyta taught him to submit ("have faith in strength of others") and he did that by trusting Wonder Woman to lead the others in carrying out his plan, even though they didn't know they were doing it, and thus earn her place among the gods..

2. So the FB trully was a big bad brute that needed a beating and not much strategy or outthinking. Greeeeaaaaat....

I think giving him a beating was incidental to Wonder Woman rediscovering who she is, especially by having the mercy she showed to the minotaur coming back to her. Like Azz said in one of the interviews this week, this three-year one was really a character arc for Wonder Woman.

3. (since you mentioned the origin) Why would Trevor be a ticket? Maybe they'd hang him, or put him in jail. Or perhaps send him on his way, but why would Diana need to go with him? Hippolyta could just as easily have sent someone else with him.

Why should what she said there be perfectly logical? She was young and excited and she made the intuitive leap that Steve's arrival would lead to her departure fronmthe island--which turned out to be right. And she didn't know about the raids, so she had no particular reason to think that the Amazons would kill Steve. As it turns out, either they don't kill defeseless men whom they come across when the raids aren't in progress, or Diana helped him escape.

[Silvanus]

Not having read this issue or the 8 or so I missed after giving up on the run and comics in general, it seems a little cowardly to me that Azz did not address the sex pirate raids. It was to be sure a very shocking moment in issue 7 when they told us this, but from what you two have spoiled in this thread, it doesn't sound like he addresses this at all.

He doesn't address it in this issue, but he has been addressing it since issue 30, in the ways bortohula mentions.

[Dr. Poison]

I just read the issue to see how Azz is leaving things for the Finchs when they take over. It really was a big "meh". Azz's Diana continues to be almost as unpredictable as the Joker. One minute she's preaching love and forgiveness, the next minute she tells the Minotaur she will show him no mercy for what he did to her sisters and then uses deception(once again) to lure the First Born into taking her hand and throws him into the pit. So many questions are still left hanging even after Azz had 36 regular issues, 2 September event issues, and 1 slot in Secret Origins. 3 years of ongoing drama and back and forth stuff like Zola and Zeke getting kidnapped all for what in the end? We still don't have a complete origin for Diana, no explanation as to why the Amazons are on Paradise Island, why they commit the sex-raids, why Hippolyte is still half-stone, how Cassandra became who she is, amongst other things. From a creative, shared-universe standpoint, this was a waste of 3 years for an iconic character like Wonder Woman especially at the dawn of a new continuity like the New 52.

2/5

[wagthedog]

They do deal with it. Saying it's 1000 year old traditions (as in the myths), questioning if it's any longer needed. Also reforming the amazons towards integration of men.

Like I said, I have given up on the comic a while back, but what you, or Azz, is saying is that the sex pirate raid is tradition. That's it?!? Was there any other follow up on this, or was this just a throwback line or two and not given much thought after?

Throwing a bombshell of a plot like the sex pirate raids seems to me that they should have devoted at least an issue about this explaining the tradition and the ramifications of it. Right now, all the amazons are under a dark cloud of being brutal killers. Doesn't sound like 'perfection' to me.

[Silvanus]

Like I said, I have given up on the comic a while back, but what you, or Azz, is saying is that the sex pirate raid is tradition. That's it?!? Was there any other follow up on this, or was this just a throwback line or two and not given much thought after?

Throwing a bombshell of a plot like the sex pirate raids seems to me that they should have devoted at least an issue about this explaining the tradition and the ramifications of it. Right now, all the amazons are under a dark cloud of being brutal killers. Doesn't sound like 'perfection' to me.

It's more than a throwaway line and more than just tradition--issue 31, in particular, was all about Dessa's guilt for the things that she did because they were necessary for the Amazons' survival.

[wagthedog]

Now that Azz's run has ended, do all the people that were Azz loyalists and saying to others 'don't worry, all the plot lines will be tied up in the end, I promise, because he did it in 100 bullets', what do you say now?

Did he really tie up all the plotlines, or did he leave more for other teams to follow?

Was the ending satisfying, or just ho-hum?

[Lax]

-Diana goes all Wonder Woman on First Born. While tying him up, telling him that: "You scream for love, First born. Yet you know nothing of it. Love required compassion. Nurturing. And above all. Submission!"
-Zeus is put back on the throne, and lightning hits. First born and Diana falls down a pit on a piece of rock. Diana helps him up and First born asks if she offers him love. Diana says she offers him tough love, and throws him down the pit asking him to understand that "Submission is faith in the strength of others.", hoping he'll learn as he one day will climb up.

That's a pretty untenable definition of love.

If love requires submission above all then that makes domination... what? Because she refused to submit to the strength of the First Born and ultimately proved herself dominate over him. Thus, by her own logic she doesn't love him.

People don't submit to others because they love them, they do so because they're intimidated, overpowered, or don't want to invest the energy of a conflict. Dominance and submission is about control.