Tim Drake: Robin, Red Robin Appreciation 2018

[RedBird]

Hacking is lame, but the pride aspect is not out of character for Tim's development.
DOn't get me wrong, the arrogance was through the roof in We Are Robin and in some other writings, but in Detective it is pretty equivalent to Tim at the end of Red Robin.

Tim at the end of Red Robin is no longer the humble, self depreciating kid he used to be.

He's a chessmaster getting close to Lex Luthor levels.

The battle over whether he should become Batman or not was also a subtle subtext in Red Robin.

Tynion's returing the character to those same conflicts.

THIS ^^

I never quite understood the opinion that new52 Tim was absolutely different to pre-flashpoint Red Robin Tim. I personally never felt he was. Granted New52 Tim was much more exaggerated, (like RR Tim bumped up to 11) I'm not claiming that they are the exact same, but that 'humble personality, and quiet awkwardness' was Tim from his earlier Robin days. Red Robin Tim was much more confident in his abilities and wouldn't hesitate to rub his intelligence and wit in an enemies face if he had the upper hand, he was still undervaluing his own life and his place among the family at times, but not his capabilities. Hell this cockiness at times would mean that he would talk down to others, as he did with Steph.

This less uplifting and more cocky exterior was of course more naturally felt during the events of Tims life in pre52 when he lost his family and friends and even when he lost Robin, although I wasn't fond of the direction his character was going it did feel very natural and was still interesting and engaging as such, regardless of whether I found him likable anymore or not. So, not being too fond of Red Robin myself, when the new52 reboot came, I was hoping that his character would be taken back to his more 'Robin' personality, and as we all know it wasn't, the Red Robin personality became even stronger and even more unlikable. I thought Tynion would regress him back, being the 90s lover and such, but sadly thats not the case. Rebirth Tim isn't AS bad as new52 Tim, but he is almost just as condescending as Red Robin Tim. :/

[Aahz]

Even Jean-Paul and Helena don't necessarily need their histories restored. Yeah, we lose Cry of the Huntress (a.k.a., Robin III); but really, the only lasting effects that miniseries had was Jack Drake getting out of the hospital and Tim meeting Ariana, his first girlfriend. You don't really need Helena for that. As for Jean-Paul: his major contribution to Tim's story was that he kicked Tim out of the Batcave when he became AzBats. After that, virtually nothing. Come up with an alternate reason why Tim decided to go it alone, and the Azrael backstory isn't needed anymore.

That just leaves Stephanie, who was introduced as part of Tim's supporting cast and continued to fill that role right up to her death in War Games. Unlike Huntress and Azrael, she wasn't there merely for one event after which she went her own way; she was a continuing presence in Tim's life for the better part of his series. To the extent that her past isn't restored, there will continue to be holes in Tim's past.

Without Helena and Jean-Paul Robin III, and almost everything Knightfall related goes out of the window (including Tims training of Jean-Paul) and thats allready a good chunk of his early history, especally out side of his own series. Add Steph and another big part of his early stories are gone.
His mother being also alive is also not helping.
And dependent of what they do with Anarky and the General a few other stories are probably also gone.

[Dataweaver]

I mentioned Cry of the Huntress (a.k.a., Robin III), didn't I? And yeah, Knightfall is in trouble without Azrael, and that's a broader problem than just Tim's backstory: that was a pivotal point in Batman's history. That said, Tim can weather its loss far better than Bruce can.

I don't consider either loss to be ideal; if both get restored, I'll be quite happy. But neither is nearly as important to Tim's history as Stephanie's history is. They're closer in importance to Tim's involvement with YJ — which is also something I'd prefer they find a way to recover, BTW.

[Aahz]

I mentioned Cry of the Huntress (a.k.a., Robin III), didn't I?

Juopp I just wanted to make a complete list, but he had at least one additional Storyline with Helana, that was mostly published in Showcase and was also part of the last trade they republished (btw. I really hope they speed the publishing schedule a little up, with the current out put it will takes years to get his series complete).

[failo.legendkiller]

Even Jean-Paul and Helena don't necessarily need their histories restored. Yeah, we lose Cry of the Huntress (a.k.a., Robin III); but really, the only lasting effects that miniseries had was Jack Drake getting out of the hospital and Tim meeting Ariana, his first girlfriend. You don't really need Helena for that.

I can agree on this with you, anyway, hanging out with Helena,Tim did, for the first time, something without Batman approval. That served very well to form his personality.
To me It was important and not skippable.
It's sad it's no longer in canon cause Tim relationship with Helena was one of the things that contribute to include both among my favourite characters.

[KrustyKid]

THIS ^^

I never quite understood the opinion that new52 Tim was absolutely different to pre-flashpoint Red Robin Tim. I personally never felt he was. Granted New52 Tim was much more exaggerated, (like RR Tim bumped up to 11) I'm not claiming that they are the exact same, but that 'humble personality, and quiet awkwardness' was Tim from his earlier Robin days. Red Robin Tim was much more confident in his abilities and wouldn't hesitate to rub his intelligence and wit in an enemies face if he had the upper hand, he was still undervaluing his own life and his place among the family at times, but not his capabilities. Hell this cockiness at times would mean that he would talk down to others, as he did with Steph.

This less uplifting and more cocky exterior was of course more naturally felt during the events of Tims life in pre52 when he lost his family and friends and even when he lost Robin, although I wasn't fond of the direction his character was going it did feel very natural and was still interesting and engaging as such, regardless of whether I found him likable anymore or not. So, not being too fond of Red Robin myself, when the new52 reboot came, I was hoping that his character would be taken back to his more 'Robin' personality, and as we all know it wasn't, the Red Robin personality became even stronger and even more unlikable. I thought Tynion would regress him back, being the 90s lover and such, but sadly thats not the case. Rebirth Tim isn't AS bad as new52 Tim, but he is almost just as condescending as Red Robin Tim. :/

Seems accurate to me.

[Assam]

Credit where its due to Tynion, he's a lot more honest about oddities in his book than most creators.

Here, the reason why we got the current eh Red Robin suit, as opposed to the Pre-Flashpoint one.

https://twitter.com/JamesTheFourth/s...89565246439424

[adrikito]

Credit where its due to Tynion, he's a lot more honest about oddities in his book than most creators.

Here, the reason why we got the current eh Red Robin suit, as opposed to the Pre-Flashpoint one.

https://twitter.com/JamesTheFourth/s...89565246439424

I liked the pre-flashpoint Red Robin costume.. what a shame..

[josai21]

I think...after Tynion finishes this arc...

Tim needs a solo.

Written by someone other than Tynion.

Honestly wouldn't mind Fabnic or Yost coming back to write him...

[RedBird]

Credit where its due to Tynion, he's a lot more honest about oddities in his book than most creators.

Here, the reason why we got the current eh Red Robin suit, as opposed to the Pre-Flashpoint one.

https://twitter.com/JamesTheFourth/s...89565246439424

I appreciate the honesty and communication with readers, HOWEVER, that being said, If the idea was to give Tim a costume that hasn't already been worn (and looked the same) by like two other Robins thats fine with me, I wasn't that enthusiastic about the preflash RR suit, but I'm not quite sure simply sticking another R on Tims suit was enough to make it feel like its own identity. Should we expect a new outfit by the end of this arc?

[Aioros22]

Especially since he would be the third character to use it.

[sakuyamons]

I think...after Tynion finishes this arc...

Tim needs a solo.

Written by someone other than Tynion.

Honestly wouldn't mind Fabnic or Yost coming back to write him...

I think he has been needing a solo since the n52. But agreed.

[failo.legendkiller]

I think...after Tynion finishes this arc...

Tim needs a solo.

Written by someone other than Tynion.

Honestly wouldn't mind Fabnic or Yost coming back to write him...

Chuck Dixon

[millernumber1]

Chuck Dixon

Freaking co-signed!

[Assam]

A Tim solo wouldn't make me excited, but I'd definitely still read it. (Assuming it was good)

Chuck Dixon

Ehhhhhh. I know, I know, separate the creator from their work but I just wouldn't feel right supporting him. I'd prefer Yost or FabNic. Or Peter David, but f**k, he's never coming back to DC.