Tim Drake: Robin, Red Robin Appreciation 2018

[The Whovian]

If we're going just based on what's been shown on-panel (based on everything I've seen), I think the order on the whole would go:

Bruce=Dick>Jason=Azrael>Kate=Cass=Damian>Tim=Babs> Selina>Steph>Duke=Harper.

I wouldn't complain about that, but mine would be:

Bruce > Dick > Cass > Jason = Tim = Damian > Kate = Babs = Steph = Harper = Selina = Azrael > Duke

[The Whovian]

Of course, if we were to go by pre-flashpoint rankings, Cass would be > than all of them.

[Caivu]

I wouldn't complain about that, but mine would be:

Bruce > Dick > Cass > Jason = Tim = Damian > Kate = Babs = Steph = Harper = Selina = Azrael > Duke

Yeah, Azrael was a weird one to place. I gave him high marks for his swords even though he's not been in a lot. I'm not as familiar with Tim and Damian's feats so we can quibble about that, but whatever.
Kate equal to Steph, Harper, and Selina, though? Get outta town!

Of course, if we were to go by pre-flashpoint rankings, Cass would be > than all of them.

Agreed. More like >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

[Atlanta96]

He is actually a very good martial artist, hes just not even close to being the best. Also something thats sort of been established is that Tim hits very hard, like, abnormally hard.

Bruce = Cass (shes probably stronger than bruce but unno, hasnt been stablished yet) = Kate? (i dont know, people tell me shes formidable, havent read her stuff but her trainingg seems below mook league assassin standard) > Dick > Tim > Jean Paul > Barbara > Jason (dont really buy this, but its his words, not mine) > Demian > Selina > Duke = Harper = Steph.

I wouldn't place Kate that high, but otherwise this looks right. Problem is that pet characters like Harper and Duke (Damian to an extent) are sometimes written with unjustified levels of skill that end up making the other characters look incompetent by comparison. Harper has had so little crime fighting experience compared to any of the Robins, but Bruce was still willing to say she was better than any of them. Duke seems to be going in a similar direction.

Adding new characters to the Bat Family is enough of a problem, but having them make the older characters look bad by comparison makes it even worse. To fix the issues with the current Bat-Fam, I think they should kill off Harper Row, turn Duke into a villain and do a traitor storyline with him, give Batwoman another solo, and give Tim a solo and/or new Young Justice series and possibly change his name. I'm not sure what to do with Cass or Steph outside of their role in 'Tec, but they've earned their place in the Bat-books more than Harper and Duke, so they should still have some sort of exposure.

[Caivu]

Problem is that pet characters like Harper and Duke (Damian to an extent) are sometimes written with unjustified levels of skill that end up making the other characters look incompetent by comparison. Harper has had so little crime fighting experience compared to any of the Robins, but Bruce was still willing to say she was better than any of them. Duke seems to be going in a similar direction.

Tell me about it. One of the respect threads I'm working on is for Harper (because why not?) and having to sort out which of her feats are PIS or SvFL is not fun. I mean, it's never fun, but here even less so.

And I agree, Kate's good, but she's not equal to or even second to Bruce in terms of fighting skill.

[phantom1592]

I wouldn't place Kate that high, but otherwise this looks right. Problem is that pet characters like Harper and Duke (Damian to an extent) are sometimes written with unjustified levels of skill that end up making the other characters look incompetent by comparison. Harper has had so little crime fighting experience compared to any of the Robins, but Bruce was still willing to say she was better than any of them. Duke seems to be going in a similar direction.

Adding new characters to the Bat Family is enough of a problem, but having them make the older characters look bad by comparison makes it even worse. To fix the issues with the current Bat-Fam, I think they should kill off Harper Row, turn Duke into a villain and do a traitor storyline with him, give Batwoman another solo, and give Tim a solo and/or new Young Justice series and possibly change his name. I'm not sure what to do with Cass or Steph outside of their role in 'Tec, but they've earned their place in the Bat-books more than Harper and Duke, so they should still have some sort of exposure.

Honestly, this is why I hated Cass from the moment she appeared. Some brand new nothing character walks in off the street and is instantly introduced as being better than all the sidekicks... and even Bruce himself??

UGggghh...

Let a new character earn their ranks please...

[phantom1592]

Tell me about it. One of the respect threads I'm working on is for Harper (because why not/) and having to sort out which of her feats are PIS or SvFL is not fun. I mean, it's never fun, but here even less so.

SvFL?

Not familiar with that one...

[dominus]

Honestly, this is why I hated Cass from the moment she appeared. Some brand new nothing character walks in off the street and is instantly introduced as being better than all the sidekicks... and even Bruce himself??

UGggghh...

Let a new character earn their ranks please...

Appeared, or reappeared?

[The Whovian]

Yeah, Azrael was a weird one to place. I gave him high marks for his swords even though he's not been in a lot. I'm not as familiar with Tim and Damian's feats so we can quibble about that, but whatever.
Kate equal to Steph, Harper, and Selina, though? Get outta town!

Whoops, didn't mean to put Harper there. Meant to put her equal to Duke. But yeah, I would say Kate, Steph and Selina are equal. Can I ask why you don't think so?

Agreed. More like >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Yep

[phantom1592]

Appeared, or reappeared?

Originally appeared. Pre-flashpoint. Back when she was mute butt-kicking superassassin that may or may not have actually killed.... her whole thing was 'She's better then everyone else'.

Ugggh...

[The Whovian]

Honestly, this is why I hated Cass from the moment she appeared. Some brand new nothing character walks in off the street and is instantly introduced as being better than all the sidekicks... and even Bruce himself??

UGggghh...

Let a new character earn their ranks please...

Brand new?

[The Whovian]

Originally appeared. Pre-flashpoint. Back when she was mute butt-kicking superassassin that may or may not have actually killed.... her whole thing was 'She's better then everyone else'.

Ugggh...

And she proved it by beating Shiva, who's THE best in the DCU. Not to mention all of her other feats.

[phantom1592]

Brand new?

Is this to imply she was around pre-No man's land? I had never seen her before that, and the new mouthless Batgirl suit showed up then... so that's pretty much where I first saw her come in and take over.

[The Whovian]

Tell me about it. One of the respect threads I'm working on is for Harper (because why not/) and having to sort out which of her feats are PIS or SvFL is not fun. I mean, it's never fun, but here even less so.

And I agree, Kate's good, but she's not equal to or even second to Bruce in terms of fighting skill.

Agreed. The only reason Bruce even asked her to train the group was because of her background in the military and he thought this would help her to train them as a unit.

[The Whovian]

Is this to imply she was around pre-No man's land? I had never seen her before that, and the new mouthless Batgirl suit showed up then... so that's pretty much where I first saw her come in and take over.

Cass has been around for 17 years