So, is Carol Danvers now officially Marvel's "Wonder Woman"?

[616MarvelYear is LeapYear]

Carol Danvers officially Marvel's Kara Danvers!

[LordAllMIghty]

A movie ticket here is $60 so it better be good.

$60?!?!

Where the hell do you live at?

[Frontier]

This discussion was bandied about a lot back when it was first announced that Scott Lang would be the subject of the Ant-Man movie instead of Hank Pym, and a lot of comic purists insisted the movie would not work and audiences wouldn't accept it because Scott is not the "iconic" Ant-Man. And sure enough the movie ended up being a hit anyway, because when we're talking about a character as relatively obscure as Ant-Man or Captain Marvel, which iteration is more "iconic" doesn't really matter.

And then they created a basically original version of the Wasp, which ended up leading into the existence of two different Wasps (Hope and Nadia) .

[616MarvelYear is LeapYear]

Let's replace the world "iconic" with "star power". I.e. celebrity status.

Who has more star power?

Batman or Superman --- Batman

Spider-Man or Captain America --- Spider-Man

Wolverine or Gambit --- Wolverine


You get the picture.

Now who has more star power?

Wonder Woman or Carol Danvers? Not a trick question. It's Wonder Woman. She's a bigger celebrity, more people know her and she's been in more media and maintained a prominent spot at the front of DC for decades. While Carol has only recently gotten big since 2012 when she was appointed as Captain Marvel. Hell, Carol's current popularity can be attributed to the 2006 revamp of her character. That's what rejuvenated interest in her.


So in terms of star power, WW wins, but in terms of being the woman that seems to be the face of Marvel nowadays. Carol does seem to fit the bill. Only because TPTB are pushing/putting her everywhere now. She's their new best friend.

Before Carol though, I'd say Storm was the closest thing to WW, Marvel had. Endearing character, exists across multiple X-Men and Avengers continuities, exist in multiple media (4 cartoon series and 4 live action movies), and who could forget this crossover from the 90's.

The art by John Byrne is magnificent!

[dreyga2000]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0rdaamhqXg

Trolling

Trolling – (verb), as it relates to internet, is the deliberate act, (by a Troll – noun or adjective), of making random unsolicited and/or controversial comments on various internet forums with the intent to provoke an emotional knee jerk reaction from unsuspecting readers to engage in a fight or argument

[GigaBalls]

I actually think switch Carol's name from Ms. Marvel to Captain Marvel hurt her chances of being Marvel's Wonder Woman.

Why?

Well first off, Captain Marvel is a name used by a LOT of characters. Its like referring to Miles as Spiderman. He's not THE Spiderman, just a Spiderman. To 99% of the fans, Peter Parker is THE Spiderman, and the rest are just banking off of his success. Between Mar-vell, Shazam, etc Carol is just another person in line to be Captain Marvel. They really messed up when they made a new Ms. Marvel, because it meant Carol couldn't go back. There was one Ms. Marvel before, when someone said Ms. Marvel I knew they were talking about Carol, but now when someone says Captain Marvel I have to verify that they mean Carol. Even taking back the Warbird or Binary name would have made her more unique.


I understand why they gave her the name, but I think they were so happy and eager to add Diversity they forgot about how much people are defined by their uniqueness. Taking the name Captain Marvel stopped making her as unique, instead she's now part of a group of Captain Marvels. She's like a bat family or spidey crew member, she's just the current replacement.

This is what I hated about their Legacy replacements, the took away the uniqueness that makes characters stars. Superman, Batman, Spiderman, etc didn't need to take another heroes place to become what they are, they become legends because of the story telling. Sure, some of those new characters are cool, but they would have been so much cooler if they didn't ride the coat tails of bigger more known heroes so closely. I mean I shouldn't have to ask which characters someone is talking about when they say Ms. Marvel, Spiderman, Thor, Captain America, etc. Its some of the shittiest writing I've ever seen in comic books, instead of writing a great story to make the character great, new, and fresh, they just give them a known name and play the lazy card. Not realizing that its going to hurt the character more in the long run.

[JKtheMac]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0rdaamhqXg

That really is the most ridiculous video. The power of editing over substance.

[DragonsChi]

I actually think switch Carol's name from Ms. Marvel to Captain Marvel hurt her chances of being Marvel's Wonder Woman.

Why?

Well first off, Captain Marvel is a name used by a LOT of characters. Its like referring to Miles as Spiderman. He's not THE Spiderman, just a Spiderman. To 99% of the fans, Peter Parker is THE Spiderman, and the rest are just banking off of his success. Between Mar-vell, Shazam, etc Carol is just another person in line to be Captain Marvel. They really messed up when they made a new Ms. Marvel, because it meant Carol couldn't go back. There was one Ms. Marvel before, when someone said Ms. Marvel I knew they were talking about Carol, but now when someone says Captain Marvel I have to verify that they mean Carol. Even taking back the Warbird or Binary name would have made her more unique.


I understand why they gave her the name, but I think they were so happy and eager to add Diversity they forgot about how much people are defined by their uniqueness. Taking the name Captain Marvel stopped making her as unique, instead she's now part of a group of Captain Marvels. She's like a bat family or spidey crew member, she's just the current replacement.

This is what I hated about their Legacy replacements, the took away the uniqueness that makes characters stars. Superman, Batman, Spiderman, etc didn't need to take another heroes place to become what they are, they become legends because of the story telling. Sure, some of those new characters are cool, but they would have been so much cooler if they didn't ride the coat tails of bigger more known heroes so closely. I mean I shouldn't have to ask which characters someone is talking about when they say Ms. Marvel, Spiderman, Thor, Captain America, etc. Its some of the shittiest writing I've ever seen in comic books, instead of writing a great story to make the character great, new, and fresh, they just give them a known name and play the lazy card. Not realizing that its going to hurt the character more in the long run.

Wow, this was a very good and well constructed post.

[Agent Z]

I actually think switch Carol's name from Ms. Marvel to Captain Marvel hurt her chances of being Marvel's Wonder Woman.

Why?

Well first off, Captain Marvel is a name used by a LOT of characters. Its like referring to Miles as Spiderman. He's not THE Spiderman, just a Spiderman. To 99% of the fans, Peter Parker is THE Spiderman, and the rest are just banking off of his success. Between Mar-vell, Shazam, etc Carol is just another person in line to be Captain Marvel. They really messed up when they made a new Ms. Marvel, because it meant Carol couldn't go back. There was one Ms. Marvel before, when someone said Ms. Marvel I knew they were talking about Carol, but now when someone says Captain Marvel I have to verify that they mean Carol. Even taking back the Warbird or Binary name would have made her more unique.


I understand why they gave her the name, but I think they were so happy and eager to add Diversity they forgot about how much people are defined by their uniqueness. Taking the name Captain Marvel stopped making her as unique, instead she's now part of a group of Captain Marvels. She's like a bat family or spidey crew member, she's just the current replacement.

This is what I hated about their Legacy replacements, the took away the uniqueness that makes characters stars. Superman, Batman, Spiderman, etc didn't need to take another heroes place to become what they are, they become legends because of the story telling. Sure, some of those new characters are cool, but they would have been so much cooler if they didn't ride the coat tails of bigger more known heroes so closely. I mean I shouldn't have to ask which characters someone is talking about when they say Ms. Marvel, Spiderman, Thor, Captain America, etc. Its some of the shittiest writing I've ever seen in comic books, instead of writing a great story to make the character great, new, and fresh, they just give them a known name and play the lazy card. Not realizing that its going to hurt the character more in the long run.

As far as the general audience is concerned, the only person who goes by Captain Marvel is Carol. Billy Batson hasn't used that name since 2011. Any other Marvel character who goes by the Captain Marvel name is either dead or using another name. Hell, being a legacy didn't hurt Miles at all so I don't see why it could hurt Carol.

[JKtheMac]

As far as the general audience is concerned, the only person who goes by Captain Marvel is Carol. Billy Batson hasn't used that name since 2011. Any other Marvel character who goes by the Captain Marvel name is either dead or using another name. Hell, being a legacy didn't hurt Miles at all so I don't see why it could hurt Carol.

Very true. But don’t rise to it. You can’t use logic here. This person seems to believe one of the most positive and popular new characters in Marvel comics taking up the mantle of Ms. Marvel was a bad move. How can you argue with that?

[GigaBalls]

As far as the general audience is concerned, the only person who goes by Captain Marvel is Carol. Billy Batson hasn't used that name since 2011. Any other Marvel character who goes by the Captain Marvel name is either dead or using another name. Hell, being a legacy didn't hurt Miles at all so I don't see why it could hurt Carol.

I think you missed my point. When I say Spiderman who do you think of first? I bet its Peter Parker, even though Miles goes by Spiderman too. Never did I say that Miles wasn't a good or noteworthy character. It would be like having the real life name of Donald Trump, but not being the President, just a guy that lives in a mobile home somewhere that gets shit on all the time due to mistaken identity.

I actually have been dealing with this Carol name issue in the Marvel Strike Force game over the last couple days. Captain Marvel(Carol) is coming to the game very soon but we've had Ms. Marvel in the game for over 6 months now. We were talking about Ms. Marvel(Kamela) in game global chat and I was surprised at how many people thought we were talking about Carol, completely forgetting about Kamela.


This a problem I have ran into multiple times when talking about her. Someone always think we are talking about someone else. Was talking about Kamela the other day and someone thought we were talking about Carol. Someone was talking about Shazam the other day and someone thought they were talking about Carol.

[Frontier]

As far as the general audience is concerned, the only person who goes by Captain Marvel is Carol. Billy Batson hasn't used that name since 2011. Any other Marvel character who goes by the Captain Marvel name is either dead or using another name. Hell, being a legacy didn't hurt Miles at all so I don't see why it could hurt Carol.

I don't know if the general audience is all that in-the-know about Carol to immediately associate her with Captain Marvel pre-movie, unless we're counting the Carol Corps. as an indicator of the general audience.

Personally I think more people probably imprinted Billy in Captain Marvel from DC 'toons then they do all of Carol's animated appearances as Captain Marvel, but I might be projecting my own issues with how she's handled on that front.

[DragonsChi]

I think you missed my point. When I say Spiderman who do you think of first? I bet its Peter Parker, even though Miles goes by Spiderman too. Never did I say that Miles wasn't a good or noteworthy character. It would be like having the real life name of Donald Trump, but not being the President, just a guy that lives in a mobile home somewhere that gets shit on all the time due to mistaken identity.

I actually have been dealing with this Carol name issue in the Marvel Strike Force game over the last couple days. Captain Marvel(Carol) is coming to the game very soon but we've had Ms. Marvel in the game for over 6 months now. We were talking about Ms. Marvel(Kamela) in game global chat and I was surprised at how many people thought we were talking about Carol, completely forgetting about Kamela.


This a problem I have ran into multiple times when talking about her. Someone always think we are talking about someone else. Was talking about Kamela the other day and someone thought we were talking about Carol. Someone was talking about Shazam the other day and someone thought they were talking about Carol.

I do think they missed the point. I'm not to hung up on the name change but I do think the points you laid out have some strong factual roots in terms of marketing and other optics long term. Enough that others should at least consider regardless of whatever biases they may hold.

I don't know if the general audience is all that in-the-know about Carol to immediately associate her with Captain Marvel pre-movie, unless we're counting the Carol Corps. as an indicator of the general audience.

Personally I think more people probably imprinted Billy in Captain Marvel from DC 'toons then they do all of Carol's animated appearances as Captain Marvel, but I might be projecting my own issues with how she's handled on that front.

I don't think you are. I would say you are correct to a degree. Some may have forgotten that Billy Baston has already had quite a few outings over the course of 40 years with the name Captain Marvel on television and movies. Enough so certain generations could go ..." I thought Captain Marvel was a guy in a Red suit and a White cape."

[Jabare]

she's her own character

[dreyga2000]

I think the name thing is moot now. Her movie in which she is Captain Marvel movie comes out in two weeks, she will be in Avengers: End game (what will be one of the most watched movies of all time as Captain Marvel), in video games she is called Captain Marvel, and the merchandise with Carol as Captain Marvel is already in stores.

Carol Danvers is now THE Captain Marvel going forward. I don't think that there is any changing that.