So, is Carol Danvers now officially Marvel's "Wonder Woman"?

[Powerboy]

I actually think switch Carol's name from Ms. Marvel to Captain Marvel hurt her chances of being Marvel's Wonder Woman.

Why?

Well first off, Captain Marvel is a name used by a LOT of characters. Its like referring to Miles as Spiderman. He's not THE Spiderman, just a Spiderman. To 99% of the fans, Peter Parker is THE Spiderman, and the rest are just banking off of his success. Between Mar-vell, Shazam, etc Carol is just another person in line to be Captain Marvel. They really messed up when they made a new Ms. Marvel, because it meant Carol couldn't go back. There was one Ms. Marvel before, when someone said Ms. Marvel I knew they were talking about Carol, but now when someone says Captain Marvel I have to verify that they mean Carol. Even taking back the Warbird or Binary name would have made her more unique.


I understand why they gave her the name, but I think they were so happy and eager to add Diversity they forgot about how much people are defined by their uniqueness. Taking the name Captain Marvel stopped making her as unique, instead she's now part of a group of Captain Marvels. She's like a bat family or spidey crew member, she's just the current replacement.

This is what I hated about their Legacy replacements, the took away the uniqueness that makes characters stars. Superman, Batman, Spiderman, etc didn't need to take another heroes place to become what they are, they become legends because of the story telling. Sure, some of those new characters are cool, but they would have been so much cooler if they didn't ride the coat tails of bigger more known heroes so closely. I mean I shouldn't have to ask which characters someone is talking about when they say Ms. Marvel, Spiderman, Thor, Captain America, etc. Its some of the shittiest writing I've ever seen in comic books, instead of writing a great story to make the character great, new, and fresh, they just give them a known name and play the lazy card. Not realizing that its going to hurt the character more in the long run.

I kind of agree with you but comparing this to Spider-Man really doesn't work because most people know who Spider-Man is and that the "real" Spidey is Peter Parker. But, with Captain Marvel, most non-comic fans which is most of the audience don't have a clue that there have been various Captain Marvels or a Mz. Marvel. Among younger people which I think is most of the movie going audience, they have zero idea that there was this kid who said a magic word and became a character that used to be called Captain Marvel.

[Powerboy]

I don't know if the general audience is all that in-the-know about Carol to immediately associate her with Captain Marvel pre-movie, unless we're counting the Carol Corps. as an indicator of the general audience.

Personally I think more people probably imprinted Billy in Captain Marvel from DC 'toons then they do all of Carol's animated appearances as Captain Marvel, but I might be projecting my own issues with how she's handled on that front.

It may well be an age thing but when someone says Captain Marvel, my first instinct is that they mean Billy Batson.

When they say Mz. Marvel, I assume they mean Carol Danvers and visa versa.

I think of the Marvel Comics versions as, respectively: Captain Mar-vell, Marvel's Captain Marvel (Monica Rambeau) and Mz. Marvel.

For me, Captain Marvel is the Big Red Cheese and, no matter the legalities or what they are calling him in the Shazam movie, he is Captain Marvel.

I say this all tongue in cheek. I mean it but realize it is trivial.

But I accept that, to a new generation and for any forseeable future, Carol Danvers will be the original Captain Marvel.

[Powerboy]

DC and Fawcett actually just settled the law suit. With the end verdict being that the actual character of Shazam/Captain Marvel not being a copyrighted IP of Superman.

In fact the only reason Fawcett settled the lawsuit was due to the fact that the directed instructed the writer to mimic some of the stories of Superman. If DC were to ever sue over those stories one would think Fawcett would have lost since that was on record. But all in all Shazam/Captain Marvel was free to use by the company.

Point being...No one was truly destroyed. If anything Fawcett made off with the better deal since they were paid to sell of Shazam/Captain Marvel to DC.

Also, as I understand it, Fawcett was way, way bigger than DC Comics. They won the lawsuit more than once but DC just kept refiling. Then the bottom fell out of the comics industry and they weren't lucrative enough for Fawcett to bother with any more so they stopped the whole thing by ceasing publication of Cap long before DC expressed interest in leasing and then buying the character.

I was a grade school kid in the '60s and I never heard of Captain Marvel until the 1970s television show. Likewise, younger people today will most likely have no idea who he is. For all practical purposes, Carol Danvers has already become the only Captain Marvel most of the younger audience has ever heard of.

[Powerboy]

They weren’t stripped of Captain Marvel. Unless you are talking about something else. And the settled for a decent amount at the time from my understanding for a business thats not all that profitable to begin with.

Fawcett made of better for the period in my opinion. Seeing as the character was shelved shortly after the settlement. Long term though...DC made out more for the character. But even still Fawcett probably would even be around today anyway just due to the competition it faced.

Fawcett was a major book publisher. Comic books were just part of their business. They were way wealthier than DC at the time. It was almost like, once comic sales started dropping, it was more of a nuisance to them than it was worth.

[Powerboy]

Fun Fact....in 1974 Captain Marvel had a TV series and the show was titled Shazam! Which might be part of the reason why so many people today still mistook that for being his name .

Yup. By that time, Marvel Comics owned the rights to the name Captain Marvel so they had to call the show Shazam. However, captain Marvel was the original movie superhero with Captain Marvel in the title.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advent...Captain_Marvel

[ed2962]

No one is taking it as a personal insult. They are just not buying the book. Which is why it’s on its 9th relaunch.

Maybe not you as an individual, but there's many fans stomping their feet or implying that there's something sinister in Marvel relaunching the book so many times. Yet, they don't question the many relaunches of Punisher, Moon Knight, She-Hulk, etc...we're on what? The fifth version of Ghost Rider now?

Of course, in my opinion though, these "relaunches" of CM weren't really relaunches, they were gimmicks to see if they could goose the sales a little. If you bring the title back in just a couple of months, was it truly cancelled in the first place?

[ed2962]

I don't want to derail the thread so I'm going to bow out now and go back to lurking.

*Smoke Bomb*
/ninjavanish

Even though I see things differently, I don't think you've derailed the thread at all. It's quite relevant in comparing Carol to Diana. Over Wonder Woman's 70+ years in publication, her title has dipped towards cancellation numbers more than a couple times, but DC would never cancel it because A) the didn't want to lose the rights and B) they were making too much money from merchandising and licensing.

[DragonsChi]

Fawcett was a major book publisher. Comic books were just part of their business. They were way wealthier than DC at the time. It was almost like, once comic sales started dropping, it was more of a nuisance to them than it was worth.

Right this is what I meant. The comic side was much smaller and not worth it for them. They walked away with a check for their efforts and its reasonable that the comics side would not be around today even if they had kept Captain Marvel/Shazam.

I read up on all of this not to long ago. It's very interesting how it all went down.


Edit: Also, as I said to not derail the thread, I'm leaving the last discussion I was in alone for now. Just encase anyone was wondering. To many people take these things personally and I'm not one for easing people's feeling in-spite of the truth.

[skyvolt2000]

Maybe not you as an individual, but there's many fans stomping their feet or implying that there's something sinister in Marvel relaunching the book so many times. Yet, they don't question the many relaunches of Punisher, Moon Knight, She-Hulk, etc...we're on what? The fifth version of Ghost Rider now?

Of course, in my opinion though, these "relaunches" of CM weren't really relaunches, they were gimmicks to see if they could goose the sales a little. If you bring the title back in just a couple of months, was it truly cancelled in the first place?

They don't hear you.


If we count Marvel Legacy-Moon Knight will hit volume 8.

What volume is Nova on? 6?

Supergirl is on volume 7

Red Sonja has 8 with 5 restarts in the same frame as Carol.

When folks question them we can question Carol instead of cherry picking rage.

[Rumble]

They don't hear you.


If we count Marvel Legacy-Moon Knight will hit volume 8.

What volume is Nova on? 6?

Supergirl is on volume 7

Red Sonja has 8 with 5 restarts in the same frame as Carol.

When folks question them we can question Carol instead of cherry picking rage.

Stop tryna take all their fun away

Selective outrage = GOAT type of outrage

[dreyga2000]

I'm curious if the movie has changed anyone's opinions?

[Killerbee911]

It is going to be a time thing, How she does in Avengers Endgame ,her sequel and other projects will cement her place in the Marvel Pantheon. She already start to get a higher presence in cartoons I think she shows up in every avenger cartoon now ,I think in future cartoon she is going to be a major player rather than side character. It doesn't matter if people think she is Marvel's "Wonder Woman" anymore people don't have excuse of not understanding why Marvel is pushing her to front anymore. People can't go "but but she is not popular anymore".

[kilderkin]

Maybe not you as an individual, but there's many fans stomping their feet or implying that there's something sinister in Marvel relaunching the book so many times. Yet, they don't question the many relaunches of Punisher, Moon Knight, She-Hulk, etc...we're on what? The fifth version of Ghost Rider now?

Of course, in my opinion though, these "relaunches" of CM weren't really relaunches, they were gimmicks to see if they could goose the sales a little. If you bring the title back in just a couple of months, was it truly cancelled in the first place?

There have been plenty of questions asked by fans about the number of apparent relaunches of character s at marvel generally

Carol got a lot coz she had a lot and they were clearly bumping her profile in spite of, at the time, relativly low sales in her solo books, she was still headlining events like cw2 or seen in other books like say j Jones

I think you are correct it was more trying to cook the numbers, but marvel were doing that all over, plenty of people were saying this generally

[Electricmastro]

I find it interesting when Carol Danvers is compared to Wonder Woman, since Wonder Woman managed to become a popular icon in her own right long before the movies. Seeing as how Carol has only been Captain Marvel for seven years and there are many women in the MCU that may later star in their own highly grossing movies, I’m just not sure. I’m not even sure that a “most iconic” label is even necessary since many other female heroes in comics have respectably achieved a lot since Wonder Woman’s debut, and wouldn’t want such a label to take away all their credit, but if you really wanted me to say who’s the first female Marvel hero that comes to mind for such a case, then I’m inclined to say Storm. Regardless of Captain Marvel’s success, that’s just how I feel.