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  1. #46
    Moderate Javier Velasco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinsir View Post
    whether you like Azz's run or not, he certainly elevated the status of WW.
    As has been stated, in recent history (before Azz) WW has not suffered a lack of A-list talent working on the title. I would have to disagree with the idea that his involvement has "elevated" her. If she has more presence, it is probably due more to her appearances in the relaunch of JLA and the creation of the Superman/WW comic. Azz's involvement introduced the character to a bunch of Azzarello fans who would never have picked up the book, if he wasn't writing it. And many of whom have publicly stated on this board will promptly leave as soon as he does.

  2. #47
    Extraordinary Member Dr. Poison's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by teardropmina View Post
    ahhh...just a cameo in Forever Evil it seems~

    He also had a cameo in Superman/Wonder Woman #4:


    Currently(or soon to be) Reading: Alan Scott: Green Lantern, Batman/Superman: World's Finest, Fire & Ice: Welcome to Smallville, Green Arrow, Green Lantern, Jay Garrick: The Flash, Justice Society of America, Power Girl, Superman, Shazam, Titans, Wesley Dodds: Sandman, Wonder Woman, & World's Finest: Teen Titans.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by LoneNecromancer View Post
    No, I'd say Lobdell's Supes was probably far better characterised than Snyder's.
    Lobdell made Superman feed his best friend to parasite just to cover his iD.(ಠ_ಠ)

    Anyway I hope that snyder will get to write WW sooner than 3 years

    Quote Originally Posted by Javier Velasco View Post
    As has been stated, in recent history (before Azz) WW has not suffered a lack of A-list talent working on the title. I would have to disagree with the idea that his involvement has "elevated" her. If she has more presence, it is probably due more to her appearances in the relaunch of JLA and the creation of the Superman/WW comic. Azz's involvement introduced the character to a bunch of Azzarello fans who would never have picked up the book, if he wasn't writing it. And many of whom have publicly stated on this board will promptly leave as soon as he does.
    Azzarello brought some of his fans that know him from 100 bullets, joker and other works, but for sure he conquered many throught his run. I didn't knew him and I bet majority didn't knew him
    Last edited by Blacksun; 11-03-2014 at 11:41 AM.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blacksun View Post
    Azzarello brought some of his fans that know him from 100 bullets, joker and other works, but for sure he conquered many throught his run. I didn't knew him and I bet majority didn't knew him
    Where are you getting your 'facts' from. Chances are, Azz brought in many of his fans from his previous works to this run. I think this has been substantiated by many in this forum. Azz has also lost many of the old timers, so to speak. It might even be a wash in terms of new readers gained versus old readers lost. If many of the Azz fans leave the comic because Azz is leaving, then he didn't do a great job of keeping new readers to Wonder Woman.

    I think for many comic book readers, Azz was a known commodity. I didn't read 100 bullets, but I knew him from the For Tomorrow story arc in the Superman books. Was a very underwhelming arc, but still gave his Wonder Woman run a try.

    I don't think he 'conquered' anyone for this run, although that just might be a poor choice of words on your part. His run, to some, may go down as one of the best for Wonder Woman, but that certainly does not apply to everyone.

  5. #50
    Astonishing Member DochaDocha's Avatar
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    I wonder if Snyder would use Batman as a narrative crutch in a WW story like he did in the "one Superman story he could tell."

  6. #51
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LoneNecromancer View Post
    No, I'd say Lobdell's Supes was probably far better characterised than Snyder's.
    Yes, it was. Not without its mistakes in its own right of course, but better. Unchained sells well (every five months when an issue is released at least), and that's cool, but at the same time readers are getting an incredibly watered down version of the character if that's the only Superman book they read.

    But that's Superman, this is Wonder Woman. Maybe things would be different. But I would hope its something he tackles maybe only after he's done with Batman. He's got Bats on the brain 24/7 right now, which he should since that's his biggest project, but it stuck out like a sore thumb in Unchained.
    Last edited by Sacred Knight; 11-03-2014 at 01:35 PM.

  7. #52
    Spectacular Member teardropmina's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Poison View Post
    He also had a cameo in Superman/Wonder Woman #4:
    thanks, forget about that one~

  8. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by DochaDocha View Post
    I wonder if Snyder would use Batman as a narrative crutch in a WW story like he did in the "one Superman story he could tell."
    The guy should be a marketing guy for all DC. His twitter, interviews and style of writing are dressing up his stories to more than they actually amount to.

    "This is the best story i could tell" sounds so similar to "the best story ever", but he doesnt actually say it. He Inceptions you to think it. Or the twitter pictures of his kids in batman costumes and t-shirts! So cute right! Such a nice guy!
    Or how his stories are covered in childish analogies and parallels that hit you over the head like a brick but people think they're deep. "Oh i get it, the owls eat the bats, but the bats fought back and reclaimed the batcave like how batman is doing now! SO DEEEP!"
    Or telling you in interviews that this "best joker story he could ever tell" is supposedly so scary and shocking and innovative, and then the Joker pulls the same crap as always.

    But by all means, bring him to WW. He'll give her a nice sales boost and she needs that. It cant be worse that JMS' gorefest, or Azzarello's snail paced story that lead nowhere.

  9. #54
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Instead of Syder, I wish DC would get Mike Carey to take over. Not sure how feasible that would be, but he's proven more than capable at writing great female characters and stories steeped in myth and folklore. Wonder Woman would be right up his alley.

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    Instead of Syder, I wish DC would get Mike Carey to take over. Not sure how feasible that would be, but he's proven more than capable at writing great female characters and stories steeped in myth and folklore. Wonder Woman would be right up his alley.
    Good pick. I've been wanting Carey to write a Shazam book as well. I dunno how feasible it is; he did leave X-Men a few years back .

    I'm a bit confused about Morrison's project, because the Earth One books are intended to be serial, but Morrison's deal seems to be a one-off. They could maybe get someone like Carey to follow up.

  11. #56
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kid A View Post
    Good pick. I've been wanting Carey to write a Shazam book as well. I dunno how feasible it is; he did leave X-Men a few years back .

    I'm a bit confused about Morrison's project, because the Earth One books are intended to be serial, but Morrison's deal seems to be a one-off. They could maybe get someone like Carey to follow up.
    I'm hoping Morrison changes his mind. If not, it would be cool if he writes a sort of "writer's bible" for backup material that explains the basics for that continuity and his ideas for characters who don't appear in the main story. It could be a guideline for the next writer so we at least get some consistency.

    Carey on Shazam would be pretty awesome.

  12. #57
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blacksun View Post
    Call snyder superman the worst when there was Lobdell writing superman? I get that you don't like anyder writing superman but he gets the character much better than most new 52 superman writers

    I think I would be grateful for any writer that could bring the rest of her support cast like trevor and expand her ties with new gods
    Yes I would take Lobdell's Superman over Snyder's. Snyder didnt write Superman, he wrote the post-Crisis Everyman mess that pretended to be Superman for a couple decades. Lobdell cant write dialogue to save his life and his pacing is terrible but he gets Superman in a way that Snyder doesnt and provides the sort of dynamic and setting and plots that are worthy of Superman. Snyder? Not so much. Snyder writes him like a generic, bland superhero. His Superman could literally be anyone with a cape.

    Now, if you were telling me that Snyder was going to write Superman based off a treatment Lobdell devised? Then I would dance for joy. Snyder's a much better writer, he just doesnt understand the Superman source material, its themes, or its tones, the way Lobdell did.

    Snyder writes a much better post-Crisis Superman than anyone else in the 52 because no one is writing that character; Pak and Morrison and Lobdell are/were writing what Superman is supposed to be.

    I would love to see what Snyder could do with Trevor, ARGUS, and the other, non-mythological aspects of Diana's world though. I think he'd get the morally ambiguous nature of the gods Azzarello designed really well and I think he'd be able to fold Trevor and Cheetah and all the rest into that setting and blend it together perfectly.

    Also, wasnt Killer Frost a major player in the ARGUS Forever Evil tie-in? I'd like to see her used as a foe for Diana, its not Firestorm is around in any meaningful capacity right now so why not?

    Just the idea of seeing Snyder write Strife interacting with Cheetah or Dr. Psycho would be worth the price of admission.
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

    ~ Black Panther.

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    Yes, it was. Not without its mistakes in its own right of course, but better. Unchained sells well (every five months when an issue is released at least), and that's cool, but at the same time readers are getting an incredibly watered down version of the character if that's the only Superman book they read.

    But that's Superman, this is Wonder Woman. Maybe things would be different. But I would hope its something he tackles maybe only after he's done with Batman. He's got Bats on the brain 24/7 right now, which he should since that's his biggest project, but it stuck out like a sore thumb in Unchained.
    it's a matter of taste. I think easily majority take Snyder over lobdell and Pak versions of superman. I know many people only getting unchained and thinking it's a great portray of superman. maybe some people like the "post crisis" Superman over the "badass" new 52 superman.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Yes I would take Lobdell's Superman over Snyder's. Snyder didnt write Superman, he wrote the post-Crisis Everyman mess that pretended to be Superman for a couple decades. Lobdell cant write dialogue to save his life and his pacing is terrible but he gets Superman in a way that Snyder doesnt and provides the sort of dynamic and setting and plots that are worthy of Superman. Snyder? Not so much. Snyder writes him like a generic, bland superhero. His Superman could literally be anyone with a cape.

    Now, if you were telling me that Snyder was going to write Superman based off a treatment Lobdell devised? Then I would dance for joy. Snyder's a much better writer, he just doesnt understand the Superman source material, its themes, or its tones, the way Lobdell did.

    Snyder writes a much better post-Crisis Superman than anyone else in the 52 because no one is writing that character; Pak and Morrison and Lobdell are/were writing what Superman is supposed to be.

    I would love to see what Snyder could do with Trevor, ARGUS, and the other, non-mythological aspects of Diana's world though. I think he'd get the morally ambiguous nature of the gods Azzarello designed really well and I think he'd be able to fold Trevor and Cheetah and all the rest into that setting and blend it together perfectly.

    Also, wasnt Killer Frost a major player in the ARGUS Forever Evil tie-in? I'd like to see her used as a foe for Diana, its not Firestorm is around in any meaningful capacity right now so why not?

    Just the idea of seeing Snyder write Strife interacting with Cheetah or Dr. Psycho would be worth the price of admission.
    I think that fans have different visions of Superman, because for me Snyder understand very well that Superman means. If i'm not mistakes you stopped readint the book at the 3rd issue, and snyder is a slow burn writer. You lost a couple of great superman moments. Snyder writing from Lobdell treatment? I would recommend snyder sign a marvel exclusive. Lobdell just don't superman and will never get. Now snyder and BQM, best supermen out there.

    Snyder probably is one of the few that could use Trevor. it could be one of the plots,
    but I also think that ARGUS lost the momentum too many times.

    he can write very good villains. Strife is a lot like joker, just want to see the world in fire. use some puns...

    but for me he has to aim higher, greek gods, new gods, that is a epic calling to be done.

    Snyder is pretty great writing women, until this day I liked all women he wrote. he is doing marvels with eternal, many women playing major roles. he helped revitalize Catwoman.
    He can do a lot for female characters on WW mythos.
    Last edited by Blacksun; 11-04-2014 at 10:39 AM.

  14. #59
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blacksun View Post
    I think that fans have different visions of Superman, because for me Snyder understand very well that Superman means. If i'm not mistakes you stopped readint the book at the 3rd issue, and snyder is a slow burn writer. You lost a couple of great superman moments. Snyder writing from Lobdell treatment? I would recommend snyder sign a marvel exclusive. Lobdell just don't superman and will never get. Now snyder and BQM, best supermen out there.
    Of course fans have different visions of Superman. Generally, whenever you first discovered and/or became a fan of a character, that version will be your favorite and how you feel the character should be handled. And the character has been around for seventy six years; between radio, cartoons, movies, television, video games, and more comic books than anyone could ever read in their lifetimes, there's an awful lot of versions of the character floating out there.

    It just so happens that in nearly all of them, he's not an Everyman.

    And you're right, I did drop Unchained around issue 3. Maybe 4? Not sure. But by the same token, if I recall correctly you have said you're reading experience with Superman is fairly limited as well. You have good taste when it comes to Diana, you should expand your knowledge of Superman a little more and be open to an interpretation that highlights the character as he's historically been portrayed and moves away from the Everyman archetype. That move was made exactly because it was something that Superman, in his fifty-something-year-long history, had never been and at the time the readership needed something new. Seriously, that's all it was and the franchise has suffered for that choice ever since.

    Snyder probably is one of the few that could use Trevor. it could be one of the plots,
    but I also think that ARGUS lost the momentum too many times.

    he can write very good villains. Strife is a lot like joker, just want to see the world in fire. use some puns...

    but for me he has to aim higher, greek gods, new gods, that is a epic calling to be done.

    Snyder is pretty great writing women, until this day I liked all women he wrote. he is doing marvels with eternal, many women playing major roles. he helped revitalize Catwoman.
    He can do a lot for female characters on WW mythos
    I completely agree with this. Snyder could very well do wonders with Diana's mythology.

    You know, when I first heard about the idea of Snyder coming on WW, I wasnt too thrilled. I like his work well enough (Unchained notwithstanding) but his name didnt really set my mind on fire with possibilities. But having had a few days to contemplate the idea, I find I really, really like it. Yes, Snyder could be exactly the right guy to bridge the old image of Diana with the new, and forge something truly magnificent out of it.

    I hope we get to see a little of how he'd write Diana in the current Batman run. But I think I'd sign on just to see him write Strife.
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

    ~ Black Panther.

  15. #60

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Yes I would take Lobdell's Superman over Snyder's. Snyder didnt write Superman, he wrote the post-Crisis Everyman mess that pretended to be Superman for a couple decades. Lobdell cant write dialogue to save his life and his pacing is terrible but he gets Superman in a way that Snyder doesnt and provides the sort of dynamic and setting and plots that are worthy of Superman. Snyder? Not so much. Snyder writes him like a generic, bland superhero. His Superman could literally be anyone with a cape.

    Now, if you were telling me that Snyder was going to write Superman based off a treatment Lobdell devised? Then I would dance for joy. Snyder's a much better writer, he just doesnt understand the Superman source material, its themes, or its tones, the way Lobdell did.

    Snyder writes a much better post-Crisis Superman than anyone else in the 52 because no one is writing that character; Pak and Morrison and Lobdell are/were writing what Superman is supposed to be.

    I would love to see what Snyder could do with Trevor, ARGUS, and the other, non-mythological aspects of Diana's world though. I think he'd get the morally ambiguous nature of the gods Azzarello designed really well and I think he'd be able to fold Trevor and Cheetah and all the rest into that setting and blend it together perfectly.

    Also, wasnt Killer Frost a major player in the ARGUS Forever Evil tie-in? I'd like to see her used as a foe for Diana, its not Firestorm is around in any meaningful capacity right now so why not?

    Just the idea of seeing Snyder write Strife interacting with Cheetah or Dr. Psycho would be worth the price of admission.
    Do internet sites and official reviews share your opinion about Snyder's Superman, or is everyone loving his every word like always?

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