What would Batman do if he discovered a secret side of Gotham.

[Castiel]

What would Batman do if he discovered a secret side/ sub culture of Gotham. Essentially learning that supernatural creatures roam the city and are pretty much in charge with supernatural royal families that run the show. Essentially Batman learns everything in this world is upside down with complex rules, traditions and Joker is the actual king albeit a tyrannical ruler that keeps any and all the supernatural community members whether they are harmless or not under his thumb. Batman even learns some of his enemies that are considered in sane are actually supernatural themselves like the dummy Scarface actually being alive and Two Face being possessed by a demon.

Ultimately things get a lot more dangerous for Batman as he finds out Joker knows his identity and even tells him right after showing up at Batman's own home like he's there for a casual visit "You know Bruce this whole fight we've had going on has been fun and all but now that you know the truth about me and the truth about what goes bump in the night in Gotham I'm afraid that the party is over. So you will either play ball or I can make life very difficult for you. Oh and I've already pulled a few strings so don't bother asking Zatana, Spectre, Jason Blood, and who ever else you know in the magical community for help because you've been officially black listed."

Then Joker takes Batman on a tour of this secret side of Gotham as a way of showing just how much influence he has and even executes someone in front of Batman. How would Batman react to such a revelation?



On a side note do you think Batman would really indulge Joker to this extent?

[Dispenser Of Truth]

I can't say personally that I'm a fan of the setup: it bends or breaks the psychology as presented of too many characters, especially the Joker.

I have to imagine Bruce would have a magic player in his back pocket that no one else knows about specifically so they couldn't be leaned on by this community that he knows so little about, but he knows is dangerous and driven by customs he can't hope to decipher. Beyond that, given that Batman's feared on alien worlds, I have to imagine a lot of the "community" would already be intimidated by him. At the end of the day, he's already taken down most of the people involved, he can do it again.

[DjessNL]

I like the idea, but not the Joker and all. Just.. the supernatural part of Gotham.

[Carabas]

He's Batman.

If the nature of Gotham completely changes then so will the nature of Batman so he can clean up his own backyard without having to involve half the JLA-Dark.
Also, it's very unlikely that any of this would have actually been unknown to him.

If this is what Gotham is in this universe then in this universe Joe Chill would have been a vampire or whatever and the teachers that trained him to be Batman would have included Giovanni Zatara and Jason Blood.

[Castiel]

I can't say personally that I'm a fan of the setup: it bends or breaks the psychology as presented of too many characters, especially the Joker.

I have to imagine Bruce would have a magic player in his back pocket that no one else knows about specifically so they couldn't be leaned on by this community that he knows so little about, but he knows is dangerous and driven by customs he can't hope to decipher. Beyond that, given that Batman's feared on alien worlds, I have to imagine a lot of the "community" would already be intimidated by him. At the end of the day, he's already taken down most of the people involved, he can do it again.

Yeah I'll be honest the idea in the beginning was that the community would know about Batman and some would even reach out to him for help which was how he would find out about it. The danger would have been that Batman would find that his enemies that he discovered were supernatural had been sort of pulling their punches before but upon discovering their secret decided to take things up a notch. But I agree despite this change in a few of his enemies he still could beat them.

I like the idea, but not the Joker and all. Just.. the supernatural part of Gotham.

Yeah I only chose The Joker because I wanted to create a scenario where everything was upside down for Batman and what could be more upside down than a world where Joker is in charge? I also chose Joker, Two Face and Scar Face as members of the community because Batman is a logical person and he looks at the facts and through out history mental illnesses were attributed to possession and other supernatural forces. So I thought it would be interesting if Batman was left to question who in Gotham was supernatural and who was insane.

He's Batman.

If the nature of Gotham completely changes then so will the nature of Batman so he can clean up his own backyard without having to involve half the JLA-Dark.
Also, it's very unlikely that any of this would have actually been unknown to him.

If this is what Gotham is in this universe then in this universe Joe Chill would have been a vampire or whatever and the teachers that trained him to be Batman would have included Giovanni Zatara and Jason Blood.

Well I'm not talking about changing the whole Batman universe just expanding it a little and not every single villain would have to be supernatural. That being said Batman wouldn't need to be supernatural at all he's smart and resourceful enough to adapt and over come this new challenge. That's the whole point of this scenario it wouldn't be much of a challenge if Batman had prior training.

[The Red Monk]

Gotham actually having its very own supernatural subculture/secret underworld is a pretty damn cool idea. So in addition to normal gangsters, Batman also has to deal with and keep in check various vampires, demons, faeries, werewolves, genies, whatever, adding a whole another dimension to crime in Gotham. Scarface being an actual demonic dummy I'm torn about (it's been pretty heavily implied, but I think it takes away something from Ventriloquist's character to have it actually be confirmed), but Joker as the king of the whole shebang, and Two-Face possessed by a demon, no...just no.

[Castiel]

Gotham actually having its very own supernatural subculture/secret underworld is a pretty damn cool idea. So in addition to normal gangsters, Batman also has to deal with and keep in check various vampires, demons, faeries, werewolves, genies, whatever, adding a whole another dimension to crime in Gotham. Scarface being an actual demonic dummy I'm torn about (it's been pretty heavily implied, but I think it takes away something from Ventriloquist's character to have it actually be confirmed), but Joker as the king of the whole shebang, and Two-Face possessed by a demon, no...just no.

I will admit after having a night of sleep (the whole Joker being king and Two Face being possessed bit was the sleep deprivation talking) I agree. It would probably be better if the supernatural underworld or subculture of Gotham did something to make itself known. Like after decades of living in squalor or living off the scraps of the normal citizens the supernatural beings or at least the more volatile ones decided to they wanted a bigger piece of the pie.

I can see Batman finding out about a faction of Supernatural beings stirring up trouble (like no longer living in the shadows and making their presence very known by attacking humans out in the open) with Batman learning that a large number of Gotham citizens the ones he doesn't pay much attention to like the homeless and lower class make up the subculture. This way while exploring this new side of Gotham new Batman villains and allies could be introduced. Besides a better leader for such a supernatural faction/ subculture would be someone new but bold enough to actually show up at Wayne manor to duke things out with Batman someone like this.

[Carabas]

I don't get why the supernaturals, who probably have actual superpowers, would live in squalor, or at least more so than your average non-supernatural Gothamite.

[Carabas]

Well I'm not talking about changing the whole Batman universe just expanding it a little and not every single villain would have to be supernatural. That being said Batman wouldn't need to be supernatural at all he's smart and resourceful enough to adapt and over come this new challenge. That's the whole point of this scenario it wouldn't be much of a challenge if Batman had prior training.

Thing is, if the goofballs that Batman has been fighting for years are in chartge of it, I don't think it is going to be in any way at all very secret. These guys are terrible at secrecy.
Also, haven't we had enough stories about Gotham's really secret secret underwolrd organisation in the last few years to last us a couple of decades?

[Godlike13]

Um, Court of Owls...

[Kingcrimsonprog]

Reminds me a bit of Arkham Asylum Living Hell.

So... um. Blame it on fear gas and act like everything's normal?

[Tupiaz]

Gothic wasn't perhaps a super natural society but it did have Mr. Whisper.

He's Batman.

If the nature of Gotham completely changes then so will the nature of Batman so he can clean up his own backyard without having to involve half the JLA-Dark.
Also, it's very unlikely that any of this would have actually been unknown to him.

If this is what Gotham is in this universe then in this universe Joe Chill would have been a vampire or whatever and the teachers that trained him to be Batman would have included Giovanni Zatara and Jason Blood.

Bruce has over and over again proven e doesn't know Gotham as well as he think he does. Arkham Asylum: A Serious House on Serious Earth, Gotham Gates, Gothic (here you accurately do have the super natural element) and City/court of owls is all example how Batman don't know the history of the city that well. Also it is a story if the plots require that Batman don't know about a secret supernatural society then he don't. It is a cheap but simple and easy way to do it. It also works better than a random vampire family suddenly feel like they want to live in Gotham for whatever reason.

Um, Court of Owls...

Aren't that supernatural a better example is Gothic.

Between Bruce realizing how strong organized crime is in Gotham (Year One) to secret societies with weird magicks/technologies (Court of Owls) and a general subculture of magick and supernatural in Gotham (Jason Blood, Scare Tactics, Mad Monk, Zatanna, and Scare Tactics stuff), the war of vampires (I, Vampire and Justice League Dark), the haunting of Gotham by Thomas/Hurt (so much Morrison stuff), Barbatos cults (Dark Knight, Dark City, etc), the Crime Bible cult (various, including 52, Crime Bible, FC: Revelations), the curse on Gotham in Return of Bruce Wayne, the curse on Arkham Asylum from A Serious House on Serious Earth, R'as and then Talia's (and then R'as' again and then Talia's again and then...) empire of crime through chemistry, rhetoric, archers and sorcery, and a few Felix Faust stories, you'd think Batman'd have a pretty good grasp on dealing with secret societies or clubs using mystic or other means to manipulate events or exist in Gotham.

Not to mention Mr. Whisper and Mad Monk.

[Dr. Hurt]

Um, Court of Owls...

I was just about to post "judging by the Court of Owls, which was merely a secret club of villains, if he learns what you described, he's gonna go joker insane".

[LifeIsILL]

What would Batman do if he discovered a secret side/ sub culture of Gotham. Essentially learning that supernatural creatures roam the city and are pretty much in charge with supernatural royal families that run the show. Essentially Batman learns everything in this world is upside down with complex rules, traditions and Joker is the actual king albeit a tyrannical ruler that keeps any and all the supernatural community members whether they are harmless or not under his thumb. Batman even learns some of his enemies that are considered in sane are actually supernatural themselves like the dummy Scarface actually being alive and Two Face being possessed by a demon.

Then this means he's not a very good detective to begin with....if he does not know a "secret" as big as this exists.

[Tupiaz]

Then this means he's not a very good detective to begin with....if he does not know a "secret" as big as this exists.

There is plenty Bruce don't know about Gotham and his just about to accept that (court of owls) however there has been plenty of secret societies, super natural beings and general history he didn't (and don't if the story requires it) know about.