Azzarello - The Final Judgement.

[brettc1]

Ah but in a poll, there is usually a space for "No opinion"

In polling, lack of interest is often as strong a factor as positive or negative opinions.
As in "What did you think of Prince on last night's episode of SNL?" Loved him. Hated him. Couldn't care less.

That might be true sometimes, Javier. But considering you are long time reader of Wonder Woman and a moderator on her comic message board, I think there must be some pretty identifiable and quantifiable reasons for you having "no opinion" about three years of her book

[My Two Cents]

Misery loves company

Has been for many years and will be for many more on message boards .

[numberthirty]

Easy "A" with waffles for "Top Five Runs". Not every run will appeal to every reader.


As for this run -

- Plenty of brilliant work about the nature of godhood.
- Interesting reworking of Diana without starting with a complete blank slate.
- Big fan of the additions to the cast.
- I cannot stress enough how much keeping Diana away from the rest of the main DCU made me love this title.

[AmiMizuno]

But he didn't give us the whole story he shouldn't present something and not answer it bad storytelling two he could have old this story in 1 years so he shouldn't be giving a A when so many plot holes ruin so much.

[numberthirty]

But he didn't give us the whole story he shouldn't present something and not answer it bad storytelling two he could have old this story in 1 years so he shouldn't be giving a A when so many plot holes ruin so much.

My "A" may not be your "A".

[AmiMizuno]

Although can we at least agree that the lasso's powers should have been used more and the lasso itself

[brettc1]

Misery loves company

Has been for many years and will be for many more on message boards .

Well, who wants to alone when they are sad?

[Imraith Nimphais]

Easy "A" with waffles for "Top Five Runs". Not every run will appeal to every reader.


As for this run -

- Plenty of brilliant work about the nature of godhood.
- Interesting reworking of Diana without starting with a complete blank slate.
- Big fan of the additions to the cast.
- I cannot stress enough how much keeping Diana away from the rest of the main DCU made me love this title.

All of this...plus Chiang's brilliant and exquisite illustrations.

[brettc1]

I know that that you're not the only one who read every issue and disliked the run. I'd be shocked if everybody liked it; people have different tastes. But, your well-founded opinion aside, there are others here who have said they've read one third or one sixth of the run. That's certainly enough basis for the decision "I don't want to read it anymore," but is it enough for a "final judgement" about the run as a whole? That's for each reader to decide, and I don't begrudge anyone the right to an opinion, whatever basis that opinion may or may not have. At the same time, though, reading issues 1-6 of Azz's Wonder Woman and deciding that Diana is too brutal in this whole run reminds me of watching only Star Wars Episode IV: A New Hope and deciding the the two Star Wars trilogies are no good because we never find out about Darth Vader's background. I can see why Javier wants a "didn't read it" option on the poll.

If comics were free, you might have a point.

But comics are NOT free. Most folks pay for them every month, and its not like thirty years ago when they cost $1 an issue. That said, only asking people what they thought if they were prepared to shell out about $150 over the last three years to read it would skew the data, because very very few people spend that kind of money on something they don't like.

The other thing is that writers know this, and that they have to keep readers coming back every thirty days. So the grade could also be seen as the writers ability to do this consistently. If people don't like the pacing or how long Azzarello took to show certain qualities in a character, that is significant as well.

But hey, if people don't like the poll, don't vote.

Of course, then maybe you forfeit the right to vote on the "What did you think of Brettc1's poll" poll.

[Dr. Cheesesteak]

I'd say those people shouldn't be giving their opinion on the run, if they didn't read it.

qft. But these are comic fans we are talking about...

I give it an A. Possibly one of the best superhero long form stories I've ever read.

The story and characterizations in and of themselves were outstanding. Sure some ppl may have qualms about too many characters, lack of certain characters, retcons, trying something new, etc. I can understand the dislike of that if it's for a beloved, legendary character. But WW wasn't beloved to me when the run began. Azz's run's merits stand on their own as a great piece of soap opera. It's really that simple.

I wonder how many QQ'ers would still QQ if it was printed as Elseworlds instead of being canon.

[Awonder]

Needless to say, that goes for you, too, Awonder! (ETA--Now I see that Awonder had already posted. Cool.)

Thank you, kind sir.

If comics were free, you might have a point.

But comics are NOT free. Most folks pay for them every month, and its not like thirty years ago when they cost $1 an issue. That said, only asking people what they thought if they were prepared to shell out about $150 over the last three years to read it would skew the data, because very very few people spend that kind of money on something they don't like.

The other thing is that writers know this, and that they have to keep readers coming back every thirty days. So the grade could also be seen as the writers ability to do this consistently. If people don't like the pacing or how long Azzarello took to show certain qualities in a character, that is significant as well.

But hey, if people don't like the poll, don't vote.

Of course, then maybe you forfeit the right to vote on the "What did you think of Brettc1's poll" poll.

I agree with Brett on this. Limiting the voting to only those who kept buying the run is going to skew the results. From DC's point of view, Azzarello's (and co) primary job is not a good story, but to sell comics. If the initial "bait" isn't enough to keep readers, and/or if the solicits and previews don't bring people in, then isn't that a valid way to grade a run?

[Hawk80]

I wonder how many QQ'ers would still QQ if it was printed as Elseworlds instead of being canon.

As an elseworld it would be a self contained garbage that I could ignore while enjoying the true WW. As an elseworld I would consider a D instead of a E.

[Awonder]

... On a side note, i think the pirate raids and the baby trading make sense from an anthropological standpoint. I point to the chinese and thier preference of male children. I dont think its admirable but i do find it an interesting aspect of the new amazons. I also dont think its fair to judge Hippolyta for the affair. Life happens, people make mistakes and sometimes those mistakes lead to wonderful things. Pun intended...

Interesting that you cite an "anthropological standpoint," because an anthropological standpoint is a big reason I DON'T like Azzarello's Amazons. As you mention the Chinese and their female infanticide, can we name an actual matriarchal society that had such wide-spread male infanticide? To the best of my (very flawed) knowledge, matriarchy, in practice, is not simply patriarchy reversed. The myths of the Amazons are patriarchal myths.

... The one issue i have, the one thing that pisses me off to no end, is the constant reference to turning Diana into a "bastard". I find that term extremely offensive, archaic and condecending. As if not having married parents makes you less of a person, unable to be respected or valuable. I hate seeing it.

Here, I agree with you. I don't use the term "bastard" as any sort of judgement of Diana, herself. But I do think it's fair to judge the actions of her parents. I may be more open to it as a story if "Zeus, you are the baby daddy" wasn't so obviously borrowed and over-used.

[Sacred Knight]

My list is pretty similar to Flatmans, except that I had no problem with the lack of classic rogues and classic supporting characters, and nor do I have any problem with the origin change.

So I went with B. If I had the choice mayyybe B-.

[Blacksun]

Uh, Orion was in quite a few issues if I remember correctly. If he was only going to focus on them for one issue, why even bother? It's not a New Gods series. It never went back to Highfather or New Genesis... it feels like filler.

Orion was in many issues. The New Genesis issue wasn't filler at all, it was important for Orion (know his origins, his relationship with his father and with diana) and they need a place where First born couldn't reach.
I think that Azz wanted to do more with new gods, but with some editorial interference he let that sink and focused on the main plot