Azzarello - The Final Judgement.

[Blacksun]

When in favorite Wonder Woman writers he is voted top 5 writers

that's right, perez, simone, rucka, azzarello and for honor the creator Marston.

[Nyssane]

I would put Jimenez before Simone, personally.

[DochaDocha]

I just read 33, 34, and 35, after putting off the former two. Overall, a disappointing end to what was an interesting run.

I don't think Azz's run should be considered the quintessential WW, but I don't think people who disliked the direction should be too discouraged that it differs, and it in no ways invalidates the 60+ years of history that preceded it. Now, if Azz WW becomes the basis for DCCU Wonder Woman, I might change my mind.

[wagthedog]

I just read 33, 34, and 35, after putting off the former two. Overall, a disappointing end to what was an interesting run.

I don't think Azz's run should be considered the quintessential WW, but I don't think people who disliked the direction should be too discouraged that it differs, and it in no ways invalidates the 60+ years of history that preceded it. Now, if Azz WW becomes the basis for DCCU Wonder Woman, I might change my mind.

I would say that the Azz run does invalidate everything that preceded his run. He wrote a hard reboot of Wonder Woman which means a clean slate, or a fresh start for the character. Early on he took care of the born of clay origin and made her the bastard child of Zeus and Hippolyta. Unless DC is telling us that this is an elseworlds story, it would certainly mean an invalidation of everything that went on prior to his hard reboot. I don't remember the sex pirate amazons before this. I don't remember the monstrous forms the Gods take, like Poseidon, Athena, Hermes, etc....

If in the readers mind they can somehow reconcile what went on prior to the Azz run with the current run, then so much the better for them.

[DochaDocha]

I would say that the Azz run does invalidate everything that preceded his run. He wrote a hard reboot of Wonder Woman which means a clean slate, or a fresh start for the character. Early on he took care of the born of clay origin and made her the bastard child of Zeus and Hippolyta. Unless DC is telling us that this is an elseworlds story, it would certainly mean an invalidation of everything that went on prior to his hard reboot. I don't remember the sex pirate amazons before this. I don't remember the monstrous forms the Gods take, like Poseidon, Athena, Hermes, etc....

If in the readers mind they can somehow reconcile what went on prior to the Azz run with the current run, then so much the better for them.

In terms of the narrative, yes, everything that happened before it does become invalid. What I wrote was confusing so I'll clear that up.

On the other hand, it's not as though once Azz's stuff got published, everything Wonder Woman that you used to know should be forgotten and never acknowledged again. A comic character's history is beyond what's currently canon in the main book is what I meant.

[Dr. Poison]

I would put Jimenez before Simone, personally.

Same here. Phil's run is at the top of my list followed by Perez, Byrne, Heinberg(short but sweet), and Thomas.

[Ascended]

That wasn't Simone, it was Jodi Picoult.

*she played or tried to play with Rucka's sandbox. She wanted to use Rucka's Greek Gods and editorial said no.
The blame fall all on editorial that wrapped Rucka run before the time, choosed the wrong writer and concept to relaunch WW.

Oh, I know who started it, and we have editorial to blame for Rucka's work being black balled. What I meant was, Simone was playing with that same version of Diana, and while she wrote a far better book than Picoult did, it still suffered the same inherent flaws and therefore was not as good as a Simone written Wonder Woman should have been.

Moving forward in the wrong direction is worse.

Well, I would argue that is not the case at all. Forward motion is always better than stagnation. There is absolutely nothing worse in this universe than stagnation. But this is basically subjective opinion and there's no real "right" answer. I will say however, that given that the sales, rankings, and reviews for Azzarello's run are at least on par with Wonder Woman norms, that this was not a wrong direction, merely a new direction that some posters here dont care for. DC however, seems satisfied considering the current god-origin is (reportedly) being used in larger media.

Oh, as for top five creative teams? In no particular order, Perez, Jiminez, Rucka, Azzarello, Simone (the stuff not driven by Picoult's work was sometimes brilliant).

[Javier Velasco]

Here is the thing...

While I have heard many posters give positive reactions toward Azz' writing and his changes in the character, I haven't heard any one say "OMG! That is it NOW that Diana is the daughter of Zeus and Hippolyta, I am going to read the book religiously."

Next year, Morrisson is coming out with his WW project which harkens back to Marston, kinkiness, and women's empowerment. Diana is NOT the daughter of Hippolyta and Zeus in that. If THAT take is more "acclaimed" than this one, then there is nothing stopping DC to have demi-goddess Diana go to sleep at night then wake up in the morning to find brown haired Hippolyta and a bunch of techno-say Amazons on PI after a bad dream. If Newhart can do it, so can WW.

[teardropmina]

In terms of the narrative, yes, everything that happened before it does become invalid. What I wrote was confusing so I'll clear that up.

On the other hand, it's not as though once Azz's stuff got published, everything Wonder Woman that you used to know should be forgotten and never acknowledged again. A comic character's history is beyond what's currently canon in the main book is what I meant.

of course, not any individual runs can destroy the history of Wonder Woman. in the context of the current discussion though, in New 52 reboot universe, Azz changed some aspects of past origins (which "everyone knows for the first time"), but left others untold and assumed "everybody knows."
I'm sure there'll be another reboot, or sooner another creative team would come along disregarding whatever Azz have done. its just that some readers, like myself, dissatisfy with or even get offended by Azz's treatment of Diana/WW origins in the first New 52 arc of her own book.

[Dr. Hurt]

Can there be an F option for people who were so uninterested in the run, they didn't buy ANY issues?

Then how can they judge what they dont know? That's unfair.

[toastedbread]

I decided that I can't vote because I can't parse my opinion into a single grade.

The things I loved, I thought were outstanding. The things I hated completely broke my heart. There were more things I liked than I disliked, but that didn't make me dislike them less. I could try to parse that into some middling grade, but...that doesn't feel like an appropriate expression of my feelings. It's too tepid, too much of a compromise, when my reactions were visceral in either direction.

It was certainly interesting, though.

And I will really, really miss Chiang's art.

[Awonder]

It's the way Azzarello often writes parts of his stories. Show, don't tell. For better or worse, which depends on if the reader like it or not. Myself I'm pretty sure it was part of Zeus plan since Zeke's eyes went all starry. So I can't see the hole in that one.

"Show, don't tell" is often one of the big weaknesses of this book, imo. Take issue 35 for example. Strife tells us, "I was just a spectator, sweetie, but it appeared that the Amazons and Hephaestus' combined legions were doing the crushing." Now, what page is it shown?

Similarly, Azzarello has had both Ares and Hera speak well of the Amazon army. But when we finally get to see them in action, they are easily caught in their own city. Hardly what I would call a great showing for the world's greatest warriors.

Earlier, Azzarello has an Amazon state, "You speak as if we have one mind in this matter, but rarely it is, if ever." Sounds good. But, where it is shown? Where is the time and effort to develop individual personalities among the Amazons the way there is for the gods (mainly the male gods)? It's so lacking that Azzarello's statement just sounds lazy, imo.

The romance of Hippolyta and Zeus? Told (and rather poorly, imo). Why is Hippolyta still clay? Told, but not even really explained. Why is an Amazon about to toss Zeke off the island if she says she doesn't want to? Why are the Amazons immortal and living the way they have been? A few vague lines not followed up on. Not shown.

There's been a very sizable amount of "tell, don't show" going on.

I decided that I can't vote because I can't parse my opinion into a single grade.

The things I loved, I thought were outstanding. The things I hated completely broke my heart. There were more things I liked than I disliked, but that didn't make me dislike them less. I could try to parse that into some middling grade, but...that doesn't feel like an appropriate expression of my feelings. It's too tepid, too much of a compromise, when my reactions were visceral in either direction.

It was certainly interesting, though.

And I will really, really miss Chiang's art.

I feel similarly. I went ahead and tried to give it an overall grade, but it does feel off. The good is really good. But the bad is really bad.

[numberthirty]

Couple of quick points -

"Show, don't tell" is often one of the big weaknesses of this book, imo. Take issue 35 for example. Strife tells us, "I was just a spectator, sweetie, but it appeared that the Amazons and Hephaestus' combined legions were doing the crushing." Now, what page is it shown?

Please give me your take on exactly what Strife was doing there.

Similarly, Azzarello has had both Ares and Hera speak well of the Amazon army. But when we finally get to see them in action, they are easily caught in their own city. Hardly what I would call a great showing for the world's greatest warriors.

Can you tell us how The First Born's army(minus a demi-god and a mythical creature) fared the last time they went up against the entire planet?

[Awonder]

Couple of quick points -

Please give me your take on exactly what Strife was doing there.

Can you tell us how The First Born's army(minus a demi-god and a mythical creature) fared the last time they went up against the entire planet?

What is this? A pop quiz? Oh goodie.

A) Exactly? She was speaking. Strife was being Strife.

B) First Born's first army killed any one that didn't join. So what? Azzarello having characters tell us the Amazons are great but only showing them get themselves easily trapped in their own city is not a great showing in my book.

Is it my turn now? What's your point?

[numberthirty]

If it's "Strife Being Strife", odds are she is stirring things up. Wanting proof either way probably misses the point.

The First Born was a full-blooded god destined to rule Olympus. "Great" does not equal "We can go up against an army that includes: A full-blooded god fated to rule Oympus/A mythic creature/a demi-god.