Cry Havok!: Havok Appreciation

[Will J.]

Alex treated Nathan like a terrorist in Cable and X-Force, even saying the opposite. He hunted him like a terrorist, along with the Avengers team, which was created after AvX.

He was operating on limited intel, and once Cable gave him the full scoop, he gave him the window he needed to escape the Avengers.

Don't forget that part.

[CuteClops]

He was operating on limited intel, and once Cable gave him the full scoop, he gave him the window he needed to escape the Avengers.

Don't forget that part.

He should have believed in Nathan from the start.
Scott did not doubt his intentions, not once. Nathan is family, and family is family.
I love Alex, but Uncanny Avengers was not a good time for him.

[Will J.]

Hm.

I'm torn on your point.

While I agree that family should give family the benefit of the doubt, it doesn't help that Alex and Nathan barely have a relationship at all. Scott has the advantage of knowing Nathan because he raised him with Jean in the future, and writers developed it from there when Nathan was revealed to be Cable. Alex and Nathan didn't get that kind of development. Obviously, Hopeless wanted to portray the Avengers as antagonists for a while, and because of that, throwing in that either Scott or Rachel could've vouched for Nathan would've undercut that.

So yeah, I agree that Alex should've had faith in Nathan, but I fault the writers for that more than the character.

(Of course, I'm biased, so that may diminish the value of what I'm saying here, but I stand by it.)

[CuteClops]

100% on this.

So yeah, I agree that Alex should've had faith in Nathan, but I fault the writers for that more than the character.

[LoganAlpha30X33]

Well then again Alex has been inverted for a few years now and so far Lorna seems to be the only one that seems to have noticed or seemed to care, as for Cable perhaps the history with Maddy had something to do with it, not saying that Alex was pining after her or anything but that maybe he thought that Scott was to quick to trust Cable...but yeah the writers have not done Alex any favors over the past few years...

[Will J.]

Well then again Alex has been inverted for a few years now and so far Lorna seems to be the only one that seems to have noticed or seemed to care, as for Cable perhaps the history with Maddy had something to do with it, not saying that Alex was pining after her or anything but that maybe he thought that Scott was to quick to trust Cable...but yeah the writers have not done Alex any favors over the past few years...

Well, at this point in the arc, I don't think it really matters anymore, because the story reads like Bunn half-assed it. Not saying that's what he did, but it definitely feels like it when I read the issues.

Regarding Cable, writers didn't flesh out the relationship between Alex and Nathan, so it's whatever the plot needs it to be.

[LoganAlpha30X33]

It almost reads like maybe they had plans for Astonishing and Bunn is just setting that up, though again it's odd that Alex is going to get blamed for everything that he did while inverted and yet those that get possessed and do bad things are instantly forgiven...playing favorites perhaps...and sadly Alex isn't a favorite of very many...

[Will J.]

It almost reads like maybe they had plans for Astonishing and Bunn is just setting that up, though again it's odd that Alex is going to get blamed for everything that he did while inverted and yet those that get possessed and do bad things are instantly forgiven...playing favorites perhaps...and sadly Alex isn't a favorite of very many...

Yeah, I can see that.

The way he spoke in interviews and on Tumblr suggests that he had other things in mind, but it just doesn't come across on the page. From what I've read about him, he'll change his stories to fit whatever's coming down the pipeline. So that could definitely be why this story is so underwhelming to me.

Well, Matthew Rosenberg says he loves the character, but truthfully, all I hope that means is that he'll give him a win here or there.

I know he won't have the freedom on Astonishing that he had on 4 Kids Walk Into A Bank, but if he's allowed to do a quarter of that regarding characterization, I'll be happy.

[CuteClops]

It almost reads like maybe they had plans for Astonishing and Bunn is just setting that up, though again it's odd that Alex is going to get blamed for everything that he did while inverted and yet those that get possessed and do bad things are instantly forgiven...playing favorites perhaps...and sadly Alex isn't a favorite of very many...

Well, he's a Summers.
Summers are never forgiven. That's a curse and a blessing. After all, it's what makes them different, and it's what makes them even more interesting. Mistakes, guilt, losses, wins, redemption. That's what being a Summers.

[Will J.]

Well, he's a Summers.
Summers are never forgiven. That's a curse and a blessing. After all, it's what makes them different, and it's what makes them even more interesting. Mistakes, guilt, losses, wins, redemption. That's what being a Summers.

True, but damn if it isn't frustrating at times.

[LoganAlpha30X33]

Though Alex has a valid reason for doing what he's doing in that he's inverted, with Scott....though yeah it seems Marvel would rather lay all of the blame at Alex's feet...

[CuteClops]

Though Alex has a valid reason for doing what he's doing in that he's inverted, with Scott....though yeah it seems Marvel would rather lay all of the blame at Alex's feet...

You keep trying to say that Alex takes the blame for everything and Scott gets a pass for everything.
Well, please read the comics. Since 2011, all Marvel do is throw rotten eggs at Scott Summers. Even if fans say that he was right, Marvel did everything for him to be seen as a villain. In the end, they killed him off panel and, for two years, he was called a Hitler.

Do you know which characters always get a pass, no matter what they do?
Avengers
Wanda
Beast
Charles Xavier
Wolverine

So, please think it over again. Your bait will not work.

That being said, I'm rooting for Alex. He's a Summers, after all. He's family.

[LoganAlpha30X33]

No I meant that outside of recent stuff Marvel went out of its way to blame Scott leaving Maddy and their son all on Maddy, that it was all her fault, for that Scott got forgiven like it never happened so that's what I was getting at...and for that Scott wasn't inverted or possessed, but now with Alex inverted it seems that Marvel doesn't care they're still going to blame him for everything...

[CuteClops]

No I meant that outside of recent stuff Marvel went out of its way to blame Scott leaving Maddy and their son all on Maddy, that it was all her fault, for that Scott got forgiven like it never happened so that's what I was getting at...and for that Scott wasn't inverted or possessed, but now with Alex inverted it seems that Marvel doesn't care they're still going to blame him for everything...

Scott leaving Maddy and their son was Jean Grey's fault. If she were still dead, he'd still be living with his wife and son.

[Havok83]

Scott leaving Maddy and their son was Jean Grey's fault. If she were still dead, he'd still be living with his wife and son.

Not likely. Scott and Maddie were having problems before Jean. For him to be with her, he’d have to denounce being an X-men and hero. He tried that but it wasn’t who he was. Maddie held him back and he could never be truly happy and satisfied with her living a retired life. That’s independent of Jean

.
Do you know which characters always get a pass, no matter what they do?
Avengers
Wanda
Beast
Charles Xavier
Wolverine
ily.

IDA on Xavier always getting a pass. Prior to Scott’s descent with AvX, he was the poster X-man that was getting trashed and maligned