This Spring, "Everything Ends" at Marvel Comics

[vitruvian]

I haven't read Hickman's "S.H.I.E.L.D." series yet (I'm waiting for the long-delayed final issue to be released), but I have read that it establishes for the 616 that Celestials can use heavenly bodies for the gestation of new Celestials. Can you tell us more about that, TakoM?

I read that a Celestial in that series was persuaded to use the Sun (rather than the Earth or the Moon, as it would have done) for creating a new Celestial, which led to the birth of a Celestial called the Star Child.

It's still quite distinct from the Earth X way of things, where there was always a Celestial gestating within the Earth - and we have no indication whatsoever that the Earth X origin of the Asgardians is correct in the 616 either. I wouldn't rely on that series for anything other than hints of ideas that they might or might not reuse in the future.

[vitruvian]

I mentioned that somewhere before I also added a picture from that story how extreme different this Reed is in his morality and thoughts. They changed for CW Reed a lot in the form that he expect suddenly the necessary evil. Hickman copied that in the Ultimate FF to make the younger Reed a villain, when Hickman took over in Dark Reign the normal FF he started to push him down even further that line and with New Avengers he completed the task to make him a broken villainous character in his title.


II and III aren't the same with II is meant things like the invasion from the Cancervers or the Annihilation Conquest. The situation of the Celestials is complex they have more than one functions/targets but in the end how they are now they will bring the end of everything in the long run.

For manipulation the different races they have 3 Reasons(which I know of)
1.) So that they protect their planet for them until their brood hatch.
2.) To experiment on them in the hope to get some result that help them to get out of this blind alley.(Universe is gone what next? => Franklin Richards)
3.) The create new universe abstracts which replace the old in order of the universe abstracts knowing or not (X-Men Forever => In the process the old universe will be possible be gone)

Hickman established the embryo thing in 616 in his comicbook (Order of)SHIELD in which also a Celestial tried to find a way to get around the problems by using a synthetic hysterectomy. The new Celestial get kinda crazy and the Celestial which gave birth died properly which make this way not look working so well...
Volume 3 of that story will start next year.

The Mad Celestials were still from an entirely different universe, demonstrating that the Celestials can be different from universe to universe and are not the same entities across the multiverse. As is true for any entity that can have different fates in different What If? stories that show different (later numbered in the handbooks) alternate realities.

[Wellman]

I mentioned that somewhere before I also added a picture from that story how extreme different this Reed is in his morality and thoughts. They changed for CW Reed a lot in the form that he expect suddenly the necessary evil. Hickman copied that in the Ultimate FF to make the younger Reed a villain, when Hickman took over in Dark Reign the normal FF he started to push him down even further that line and with New Avengers he completed the task to make him a broken villainous character in his title.

Reed isn't villainous in New Avengers, like most of the Illuminati he is indeed broken, but far from villainous. Which is ironically why most of the Illluminati are suffering like they have because while the took the steps to do so, they lack the villainous resolve that would stain their hands forever but are blamed for going as far as they did.

[Mark]

Reboot or maybe they'll just stop publishing. Either way I won't mind.

[Songbird/Diamondback]

Reboot or maybe they'll just stop publishing. Either way I won't mind.

You know...I would not be surprised if they stopped publishing comics. I mean, they barely sell over 100,000 issues these days, and Marvel is now making bigger bucks with the films...

[Mark]

You know...I would not be surprised if they stopped publishing comics. I mean, they barely sell over 100,000 issues these days, and Marvel is now making bigger bucks with the films...

Well I'd rather have seen them stop publishing rather than publish the mangled characters I've seen in the past few years. It could be trolling, they are a rather sadistic lot as far as net fans go and they seem to love nothing better than to stir the red ants into a pile of black ones and watch the fun. A reboot however would give the current authors the chance to re-tell every origin, first meeting or recast the characters as they wish, matching them to the movies and allowing the current authors to satisfy their egos that they can re-write the old stories better than the old stories were ever written. So it could be that as well. I expect along with this even will be another price hike, another dollar or two and a few less pages.
Again I won't really mind, I've finally managed to stop buying and for the most part stop caring about what the current group of writers/editors do. They haven't published a story I've liked with characters I've recognized in over five years now, if this is marvel's swan song and they aren't going to publish anymore than I'll be ok with that. If they are rebooting and re-writing all of the old origin/first meeting stories then I doubt very much I'll buy them. Based on Hickman's current storyline I doubt very much that he or anyone else even understands what marvel used to be and what the characters used to stand for, let alone cares.

[Jely4me]

If Everything Ends, what am I suppose to read from Marvel!?

But in all seriousness, any one else think this might be Marvel's version of Crisis on Infinite Earths?

If it is I gotta say I'm done. Already been cold turkey with DC for going on 3 years, Marvel and their arrogance. ...oh yeah....40 years of old stories to reread and my indie pulls to keep my love alive....

[Orbus]

They're not going to stop publishing and a full on reboot seems unlikely.

The 616 universe already closely resembles the movie universe at least on superficial levels and some bigger efforts have been made in the past year to make things more in line with the movies. Why would they make an event to give classic Nick Fury a send off to fully make way for his son if they planned to reboot in a few months to a universe were Fury always looked and acted like Samuel L Jackson?

Why launch and make a big a deal about a new Thor and Captain America if they are going to reboot what would normally be in the middle of those characters arcs?

Based on Hickman's current storyline I doubt very much that he or anyone else even understands what marvel used to be and what the characters used to stand for, let alone cares.

What about his past work? Does that demonstrate an understanding of what Marvel used to be or what the characters stood for?

Isn't the whole point of the story now that these heroes are fallen? Doesn't that also hint that they will rise again to varying degrees to save the day?

[Imraith Nimphais]

.......meh

[TakoM]

The Mad Celestials were still from an entirely different universe, demonstrating that the Celestials can be different from universe to universe and are not the same entities across the multiverse. As is true for any entity that can have different fates in different What If? stories that show different (later numbered in the handbooks) alternate realities.

I meant the new born Celestial which is with Newton not the one from another univserse

Reed isn't villainous in New Avengers, like most of the Illuminati he is indeed broken, but far from villainous. Which is ironically why most of the Illluminati are suffering like they have because while the took the steps to do so, they lack the villainous resolve that would stain their hands forever but are blamed for going as far as they did.

I think Hickman played too much with the boarder between hero and villain with the Illuminati no one of them is able to redeem themselves if this story will stay in the 616 continuum.

[gurkle]

I think Hickman played too much with the boarder between hero and villain with the Illuminati no one of them is able to redeem themselves if this story will stay in the 616 continuum.

Well, if Everything Ends then maybe it doesn't matter how horrible he makes them.

I'm wondering how Hickman will handle an event that seems to be all about bringing together events from Marvel's past. I don't know whether or not Hickman is a Marvel history fan, but he doesn't write like one. He likes to write in broad strokes and not worry too much about references to past stories, but that doesn't sound like an option with Secret Wars. I'm torn between hoping that he can use this format to find a balance between fans of his approach and Marvel-history fans (I tend not to be big on his Avengers because it doesn't incorporate much history) and thinking that he'll just present everything in very broad strokes.

[TakoM]

I haven't read Hickman's "S.H.I.E.L.D." series yet (I'm waiting for the long-delayed final issue to be released), but I have read that it establishes for the 616 that Celestials can use heavenly bodies for the gestation of new Celestials. Can you tell us more about that, TakoM?

I read that a Celestial in that series was persuaded to use the Sun (rather than the Earth or the Moon, as it would have done) for creating a new Celestial, which led to the birth of a Celestial called the Star Child.

How much the Celestial manipulate the human genome or other races aren't in that book. The female Celestial which is in a book is some sort of rebel and she reveals to the Order of Shield that their world will end sooner than they think because of the embryo inside of the earth(and also many other planets) and that she has some sort of plan to avoid such terror in the future .......

There is some sort of information insecure but when you know that the Celestial manipulated the human genome to make them more powerful and you know the implanted an embryo inside of the earthcore than you can add 1+1 that human are manipulated to protect earth.

But unlike Alex Ross version it isn't limited to that and has more layers to it like the proto-mutants and the ultimate target which is said in X-Men Forever.

[robreedwrites]

Well, if Everything Ends then maybe it doesn't matter how horrible he makes them.

I'm wondering how Hickman will handle an event that seems to be all about bringing together events from Marvel's past. I don't know whether or not Hickman is a Marvel history fan, but he doesn't write like one. He likes to write in broad strokes and not worry too much about references to past stories, but that doesn't sound like an option with Secret Wars. I'm torn between hoping that he can use this format to find a balance between fans of his approach and Marvel-history fans (I tend not to be big on his Avengers because it doesn't incorporate much history) and thinking that he'll just present everything in very broad strokes.

Eh, Hickman's Fantastic Four run relies on some continuity, and he seems to be weaving certain threads throughout his own work. To me he tends to grasp onto a theme and apply that through his run. His Fantastic Four was about family and holding on to it. His Avengers is about heroes uniting to face a common threat, but on an increasingly grand scale. It also appears to be about life persevering in the face of death, while New Avengers is about how men face their own inevitable end.

[gurkle]

Eh, Hickman's Fantastic Four run relies on some continuity, and he seems to be weaving certain threads throughout his own work. To me he tends to grasp onto a theme and apply that through his run. His Fantastic Four was about family and holding on to it. His Avengers is about heroes uniting to face a common threat, but on an increasingly grand scale. It also appears to be about life persevering in the face of death, while New Avengers is about how men face their own inevitable end.

I agree, but as you say, he's more interested in an overall theme and the continuity of his own work, not so much the continuity of the Marvel universe. I'm not saying this is a terrible thing, and it makes sense when a lot of new people are coming to the Avengers who weren't previously fans of the comics. I'm not even saying he should be trying to appeal to us Avengers continuity geeks, just that that's not his thing and that's not what Marvel hired him for. (Even Bendis's New Avengers depended on a certain knowledge of what the Avengers used to be, and subverting it, and then by the end of the run it was much more of a traditional Avengers book. Hickman isn't into that.)

[Gamma-Mutant]

Marvel's new Secret Wars is very much looking like Crisis on Infinite Earths. With all the multiple realities merging together to create a new singular universe. I really wouldn't be surprised if Marvel reboots their universe in 2016 when Secret Wars concludes. If they do I don't believe it'll be a full on hard reboot like DC did, but more of a soft reboot with all their titles relaunching with new #1's all at the same time. So that would in theory be for May 2016, the same time Captain America: Civil War hits theaters.