Kid Flash: Wallace West Appreciation Thread

[J. D. Guy]

If that is the case-Wally needs to STAY away from Barry.

Also remember for MANY folks Flash is the ONLY title they maybe read with him in it.

Same issue with Duke under Tom King, John Stewart in Green Lantern, Cyborg in Justice League & Storm in X-Men.

So while you do have him in Deathstroke & Teen Trainwreck-remember not every store STOCK those books. Remember the pile of books that packs bins will vary.

I have been to too many used book stores where FLASH has a huge bin pile and you would be LUCKY to see Teen Titans and Deathstroke (especially that arc).

So guess what version wins out? Thus making him a harder sell to folks because they expect that version to be seen.

That is an editorial issue. That either gets solved via Wally backups in Flash or he gets over it.

Well, again, in Wally's case, he had every right to be upset and uncomfortable around Barry when he was revealed the informations that were kept hidden from him, regarding his father the first time and regarding his "not even meant to exist" thing the second time. While he started to get past his anger over the first matter in time for the Grodd and Negative Flash story's climax, the second bomb shell dropped not long after and opened new wounds. It would be disingenuous for Wally to be made to "get over it" regarding such consistent lack of candid trust and sincerity from Barry, and straight-up disrespectful to drop Wally entirely from the book, even as a recurrer.

Out of universe, these moments coincide with Wally dipping in and out of the story. Williamson is nowhere near as bad as King with his not using Duke, as the former does make use of Wally, and for example the issue where KF learns about his father and that it was kept from him by Barry was a very powerful moment and one of my favorites for the character. King never really even bothered that much. Williamson, though, does flow Wally out of the story, just like he does Godspeed and everyone else other than Barry, only to fold them back in later. I do wish there was a consistent presense, but I can appreciate the story beats better because Williamson does justify (most of the time) Wally's/KF's appearances and absences.

Those who see him as nothing more than whiny in his moments in the Flash book don't pay attention (ignorantly or deliberately) to the times when he's not explicitly angry with Barry, nor do they acknowledge that Wally's times of frustration and abject anger towards Barry and his lack of candidness are justified. Likely part of it is that some of those who do so are sympathetic towards Barry and so won't tolerate anyone against him, regardless of how internally justified the circumstances are. That doesn't make Wally/Kid Flash wrong or whiny, however. And it doesn't justify sweeping such poignant matters under the rug.

What I will say, though, is that I like the idea of Williamson writing back-ups that feature just Wally/Kid Flash doing whatever within his own story. That would be cool, and also keep the character fresh in the Flash book even when he can't be justified by Williamson to be included in the main story.

Lastly, I reiterate that KF's treatment in the Flash book by Williamson is leagues and beyond better than Duke's in King's Batman book(s). Sure, I'd like KF to be in Flash more often and more consecutively, but I can at least appreciate that when KF is there, he's given some form of agency and poignancy. That same appreciation can't be levied towards King's Batman.

[married guy]

As I've stated, I actually like the character. I like that there's a Kid Flash.

But nobody can deny the DC REALLY stumbled out of the gate when it came to this character.
The fact he was created to replace a LONG established character was the worst move.
Simply having him be named Wally West and become the new Kid Flash could STILL have worked.
But because TPTB chose a different path, it meant Wally/Wallace was starting a long way back and a number of old school readers ready to hate him from the get go.
(Irrational I know, but still it was there.)
It's impressive that he's now at a point where I enjoy reading about him considering how little I liked the character when he was first introduced.

In regards to back-ups, I'm also with it.
It's a great place to highlight those speedsters and supporting characters getting shortchanged and be given a little more depth.

[BohemiaDrinker]

Ms Marvel, Jaime Reyes, Moon Girl, CHo Hulk, Jane Foster & Riri Williams would beg to differ. Especially Riri-who didn't even wear Tony's armor unlike Doom.

That's fair on most accounts - I'm way more involved in the DC side of things, so I may have ignored most examples (I mostly steer clear from comics-gate types) . The exception is Jaime, though: yes, he got a lot of backlash, and didn't deserve it (his original run is one of the underrated gems of the 2000s), but it was nowhere near Wallace's.

[byrd156]

That's fair on most accounts - I'm way more involved in the DC side of things, so I may have ignored most examples (I mostly steer clear from comics-gate types) . The exception is Jaime, though: yes, he got a lot of backlash, and didn't deserve it (his original run is one of the underrated gems of the 2000s), but it was nowhere near Wallace's.

Jaime's run is a modern classic in my eyes.

[BohemiaDrinker]

But because TPTB chose a different path, it meant Wally/Wallace was starting a long way back and a number of old school readers ready to hate him from the get go.
(Irrational I know, but still it was there.)

It's impressive that he's now at a point where I enjoy reading about him considering how little I liked the character when he was first introduced.

Well, I don't know how irrational it was. Let me explain: as a Wally West fan, the one thing I didn't want was Wally back as Kid Flash (specially in a world with Nightwing, Tempest, etc). So, knowing that he was 12 really pissed me off, I admit.

But then, when he was introduced, I actually forgot my fanboy rage: I became pissed as a black man. Because OG Wally was a good kid, with good grades, etc. As soon as they decided that "Wally is black", he was suddenly a juvenile delinquent and it was no big deal for a white cop to give him n arm-lock. That racism - even though I believe was completely unintentional - that disgusted me. I was still pissed with the "Wally" situation, sure, but the racial component was what really drove me mad.

Now, after OG Wally was brought back, Wallace gained 2 things: the right to be his own character, and his origin became way less problematic (still stereotyped AF, yes, but being officially another character drastically reduced the "this is how we see black people" component).

Now, lots of people complain about Willianson's characterization, but I think it's more than fine. Even though he has issues, part are mandated to fit into other books, and part are justified "teenager" issues, as opposed to the "black teenager" issues from before.

So, I'm all for the Wallace moniker (but "Wally" doesn't bother me either) only because it lets him be his own character. I'm not as radical as to defending that he should change his actual name - Barry and Bart also have the exact same name and nobody seems to care.

Some people hung up that he should be called Wally at all costs seem to be demonstrating sort of a petty attitude, in the sense of "screw OG Wally and his fans". Well, we're already screwed so no need to rub salt on it.

That said, now that they're no longer "the same" character, I'd very much like Wallace to grow past his origin and gain a sizeable fandom of his own. I don't see this happening if the Flash fandom is further divided into Wally 1 X Wally 2, or worse, the "Wally should be Kid Flash" camp.

So for me that's it: I like Wallace. I love the fact that we have a black speedster that's not a ridiculous stereotype despite his origins (which, IMHO, should be retconned away regardless of anything else). I 'don't care about the fake "NuWally fandom" who's really "Barry's fandom trying to guarantee that their guy is the only one". You can have your thing without trying to take others', just saying.

[BohemiaDrinker]

Jaime's run is a modern classic in my eyes.

Yes, it is. It's a shame that Didio felt he had to kill Ted: I imagine that if Ted was alive and ok during that same storyline, the backlash would be way smaller and Jaime would have his chance to flourish. John Rogers really nailed it (yes, Giffen was also involved at first, but it was when Rogers took the helm that that run really took off)

[married guy]

What I meant by irrational were the people carrying on simply because the character was black.
My issue was the character was plonked into continuity & DC said here's your Wally West. There has been no other. Like it or lump it.

[Raijin]

Well, I don't know how irrational it was. Let me explain: as a Wally West fan, the one thing I didn't want was Wally back as Kid Flash (specially in a world with Nightwing, Tempest, etc). So, knowing that he was 12 really pissed me off, I admit.

But then, when he was introduced, I actually forgot my fanboy rage: I became pissed as a black man. Because OG Wally was a good kid, with good grades, etc. As soon as they decided that "Wally is black", he was suddenly a juvenile delinquent and it was no big deal for a white cop to give him n arm-lock. That racism - even though I believe was completely unintentional - that disgusted me. I was still pissed with the "Wally" situation, sure, but the racial component was what really drove me mad.

Now, after OG Wally was brought back, Wallace gained 2 things: the right to be his own character, and his origin became way less problematic (still stereotyped AF, yes, but being officially another character drastically reduced the "this is how we see black people" component).

Now, lots of people complain about Willianson's characterization, but I think it's more than fine. Even though he has issues, part are mandated to fit into other books, and part are justified "teenager" issues, as opposed to the "black teenager" issues from before.

So, I'm all for the Wallace moniker (but "Wally" doesn't bother me either) only because it lets him be his own character. I'm not as radical as to defending that he should change his actual name - Barry and Bart also have the exact same name and nobody seems to care.

Some people hung up that he should be called Wally at all costs seem to be demonstrating sort of a petty attitude, in the sense of "screw OG Wally and his fans". Well, we're already screwed so no need to rub salt on it.

That said, now that they're no longer "the same" character, I'd very much like Wallace to grow past his origin and gain a sizeable fandom of his own. I don't see this happening if the Flash fandom is further divided into Wally 1 X Wally 2, or worse, the "Wally should be Kid Flash" camp.

So for me that's it: I like Wallace. I love the fact that we have a black speedster that's not a ridiculous stereotype despite his origins (which, IMHO, should be retconned away regardless of anything else). I 'don't care about the fake "NuWally fandom" who's really "Barry's fandom trying to guarantee that their guy is the only one". You can have your thing without trying to take others', just saying.

Last paragraph doesn't make sense to me. I always found the "fake fandom" argument to be demeaning.

[BohemiaDrinker]

Last paragraph doesn't make sense to me. I always found the "fake fandom" argument to be demeaning.

Do you fit into that description? If not, than it's nothing for you to be worried about. If you do, well, then that's that.

Maybe it's not flattering, but in some (a lot of?) cases, it's true.

[Raijin]

Do you fit into that description? If not, than it's nothing for you to be worried about. If you do, well, then that's that.

Maybe it's not flattering, but in some (a lot of?) cases, it's true.

Uhhh i was simply asking for clarification. But okay then?

[byrd156]

Uhhh i was simply asking for clarification. But okay then?

To be fair you didn't ask anything, you just said it didn't make sense and found that line of thinking demeaning.

There are plenty of people out there who like or (generally) dislike something that effects something they enjoy. A lot of Wally fans have an issue with Wallace because he was meant to replace the original. Maybe someone who has always liked Barry or just got into Barry is worried he would lose the spotlight if the real Wally was coming back. So they support Wallace to make sure he stays around and that will keep Barry around or Wally away.

A different example of this just happened when A Star Is Born and Venom came out the same day. A bunch of fans on both sides made a bunch of fake negative or positive reviews just to get more people to support the movie they liked more. People will always try to tear down or support something by using proxies or other methods to make sure whatever their end goal is happens. This idea of fake fandom is prevalent in everything from politics to pop culture. It doesn't make much sense but people do it for everything, especially superheroes.

[BohemiaDrinker]

Uhhh i was simply asking for clarification. But okay then?

Then I read that completely wrong and apologize if I seemed blunt or rude.

My comment with about the "fake fandom" meant that that are a lot of Barry fans claiming "support" for Wallace - or even arguing that he should be "Wally", and the only one - because that is a way of keeping "Wally" as a sidekick, thus alievtiang some irrational fear that OgWally could take over Barry's reign (like that is ever happening under this editorial...)

[Frostbite883]

Then I read that completely wrong and apologize if I seemed blunt or rude.

My comment with about the "fake fandom" meant that that are a lot of Barry fans claiming "support" for Wallace - or even arguing that he should be "Wally", and the only one - because that is a way of keeping "Wally" as a sidekick, thus alievtiang some irrational fear that OgWally could take over Barry's reign (like that is ever happening under this editorial...)

Okay, which type of Barry fans are you taking 'bout here. Exactly.

[BohemiaDrinker]

Okay, which type of Barry fans are you taking 'bout here. Exactly.

I just described the behavior in the post above.

[LP22]

I like Wallace he really came a long way since rebirth