REVIEW: Superman Unchained, #9

[Sacred Knight]

Oh yeah. There's nothing particularly memorably good about Lobdell's Superman, and of course Lobdell has some of the quirkiest dialogue, but Unchained's Supes was a patsy. And let's not forget to mention that Snyder is the guy who says nobody wins when Batman and Supes fights, and then Batman wins. Snyder's stewardship of Superman reminds me of the first season of the Justice League cartoon.

First season JL is still worse, but yeah, this effort definitely leans too close to Timm's Superman for comfort.

[Auguste Dupin]

I don't think Snyder was trying to bring new 52 superman to Unchained. If he wanted he would write it since the beggining, new 52 superman is not the onl one that doesn't have cold blood

Okay, so you're saying Snyder purposely wrote a Superman who goes from "there's no need to fight" to "come on and fight me, you piece of..." in a few panels. So what you're saying is that he purposely wrote a Superman that was mentally unstable.
....Makes sense, actually.
As for him not being "edgy and a jerk".....I'll take a Superman who does trash talk over one who decides that murdering thousands of aliens is an acceptable course of action without ever trying to find another solution than the one provided by his archnemesis. Seriously, that scene is the very incarnation of why he's a "patsy". He has no backbone, no moral principle. "My" Superman might be a "jerk", "yours" attempted mass murder.

[Blacksun]

Okay, so you're saying Snyder purposely wrote a Superman who goes from "there's no need to fight" to "come on and fight me, you piece of..." in a few panels. So what you're saying is that he purposely wrote a Superman that was mentally unstable.
....Makes sense, actually.
As for him not being "edgy and a jerk".....I'll take a Superman who does trash talk over one who decides that murdering thousands of aliens is an acceptable course of action without ever trying to find another solution than the one provided by his archnemesis. Seriously, that scene is the very incarnation of why he's a "patsy". He has no backbone, no moral principle. "My" Superman might be a "jerk", "yours" attempted mass murder.

Superman didn't had complete different personalities, he tried diplomacy first and it failed. It Reach a point where s=Superman was completely done.
He didn't had enough time to think about a plan, it was a matter of minutes before the invasion happens. Or he acted or the earth would get destroyed.

And what, you think Morrison didn't have issues with his artist as well? The only reason issues 5 and 6 exist is because Morrison had to make up something to get Morales time to catch up. Same for issues 9 and 13.
Maybe Snyder should have done the same, and turn this to his advantage by using another artist (N'guyen, for instance) to develop his story a little more. For instance, by telling us more about Wraith, and what he has actually done for the US. Or maybe by telling us more about Luthor's side of the story (that way, maybe neither him nor the alien invasion would have come out of f.cking nowhere).
Or maybe they should have waited a few months before starting the mini series, giving Lee time to catch up, and limiting the delays. I mean, come on, it's not like DC doesn't know Lee can't do 9 issues straight without some form of help, and they did plan for it in Johns' Justice League for instance. So, really, that one is on their head.
Or maybe it wouldn't have changed a thing sales wise (after all, as I said, it already went from 251 000 to 136 000 before the delays, so if anything, the drop rate slowed down after the delays started to happen). I'm not a sales specialist, and frankly, neither are you.

it also depends on the editor. Nguyen and Snyder also have another projects, that they couldn't produce in a short period of time the material needed for Unchained. The series was planned to be on Superman 75th anniversary and was launched close to man of steel movie. plan was good to launch with man of steel movie, problem was that Lee can't do 9 issues without killers delays

[Auguste Dupin]

Superman didn't had complete different personalities, he tried diplomacy first and it failed. It Reach a point where s=Superman was completely done.
He didn't had enough time to think about a plan, it was a matter of minutes before the invasion happens. Or he acted or the earth would get destroyed.



it also depends on the editor. Nguyen and Snyder also have another projects, that they couldn't produce in a short period of time the material needed for Unchained. The series was planned to be on Superman 75th anniversary and was launched close to man of steel movie. plan was good to launch with man of steel movie, problem was that Lee can't do 9 issues without killers delays

-No, actually I was referring to his first fight with Wraith, which ends with Wraith outright tell him that there's no need to fight anymore, while Superman was all "Come on! Fight me!". So, Snyder's Superman is all for diplomacy....unless you piss him off, then he's going to kick you a...
Wait, how is that different from any New52 version of Superman again?
As for the invasion....Yeah, it's not like he could have tried to trap them in some kind of Phantom Zone or something. Obviously, that kind of solution is waayyyy out of Superman's grasp. No, clearly, the only solution was to try "Take you with me" at the suggestion of his achenemesis.

-I said Nguyen because he was already involved, but I could have said any one, really. As for Snyder, well....he had, what? Two books besides that one? That doesn't sound impossible to me.
But even that's besides the point. DC knows Lee can't do 9 issues in time, the guy has been working for them for years. So either they find solutions to compensate (hell, they could have make the book come out once every two months from the start, for instance), or they accept the consequences of the book being delayed. Either way, it's on their head, and that's even assuming the delays were the reason sales started to drop.

[DochaDocha]

I'm not saying Lee is lazy or anything like that, but I get the impression even if you switched a monthly title to a bi-monthly, he still wouldn't be able to get the books out on time.

[Blacksun]

I'm not saying Lee is lazy or anything like that, but I get the impression even if you switched a monthly title to a bi-monthly, he still wouldn't be able to get the books out on time.

he can't, there is some unfinished projects he abandoned.

-No, actually I was referring to his first fight with Wraith, which ends with Wraith outright tell him that there's no need to fight anymore, while Superman was all "Come on! Fight me!". So, Snyder's Superman is all for diplomacy....unless you piss him off, then he's going to kick you a...
Wait, how is that different from any New52 version of Superman again?
As for the invasion....Yeah, it's not like he could have tried to trap them in some kind of Phantom Zone or something. Obviously, that kind of solution is waayyyy out of Superman's grasp. No, clearly, the only solution was to try "Take you with me" at the suggestion of his achenemesis.

-I said Nguyen because he was already involved, but I could have said any one, really. As for Snyder, well....he had, what? Two books besides that one? That doesn't sound impossible to me.
But even that's besides the point. DC knows Lee can't do 9 issues in time, the guy has been working for them for years. So either they find solutions to compensate (hell, they could have make the book come out once every two months from the start, for instance), or they accept the consequences of the book being delayed. Either way, it's on their head, and that's even assuming the delays were the reason sales started to drop.

I read it again and didn't saw that on the fight.
phantom zone is so plot kill, it got to overused.

well snyder probably was working on batman eternal and wytches too. Also he was starting Zero year that was very complicated and time consuming. The series was announced as Snyder and Lee, that is a superstar penciller. Seems like DC treated it as a special project and just let Lee take his time like marvel is doing with David Aja.

[Auguste Dupin]

phantom zone is so plot kill, it got to overused.[/B]

well snyder probably was working on batman eternal and wytches too. Also he was starting Zero year that was very complicated and time consuming. The series was announced as Snyder and Lee, that is a superstar penciller. Seems like DC treated it as a special project and just let Lee take his time like marvel is doing with David Aja.

So, obviously, the solution is to create a situation where the Phantom Zone is the perfect solution to a dilemma, only to not use it with little to no explanation because it's "overused". Because that's good writing.
And if DC wants to treat it like a special project, why not. But then, they shouldn't have tried to pretend it would be a monthly, an should accept the consequences that might be the sales drop (because it still hasn't been proved).

[Blacksun]

So, obviously, the solution is to create a situation where the Phantom Zone is the perfect solution to a dilemma, only to not use it with little to no explanation because it's "overused". Because that's good writing.
And if DC wants to treat it like a special project, why not. But then, they shouldn't have tried to pretend it would be a monthly, an should accept the consequences that might be the sales drop (because it still hasn't been proved).

this become a boring plot device with pak, anything big use phantom zone.

yeah DC announced like a pngoing series, than rumors it was only 9 issues and snyder wanting more. than confirmed it was only a mini. I don't know exactly when the biggest sales drop happened, but i guess it was after the first 4 months delay. Anyway it was still selling best than johns superman

[Auguste Dupin]

this become a boring plot device with pak, anything big use phantom zone.

yeah DC announced like a pngoing series, than rumors it was only 9 issues and snyder wanting more. than confirmed it was only a mini. I don't know exactly when the biggest sales drop happened, but i guess it was after the first 4 months delay. Anyway it was still selling best than johns superman

Ho, come on. He used it , like, once.
And I'm certainly not going to defend Johns' Superman. That being said, a new book launched on the character's 75th anniversary is not the same situation as taking over a book after a run by Scott Lobdell. You don't pull off 100 + sales whith a number 32.

[Blacksun]

Ho, come on. He used it , like, once.
And I'm certainly not going to defend Johns' Superman. That being said, a new book launched on the character's 75th anniversary is not the same situation as taking over a book after a run by Scott Lobdell. You don't pull off 100 + sales whith a number 32.

once with war world, and them he tried again with brainiac invasion but failed? seems like that.

takes some time to get phantom zone project that much energy, specially that the fortress was destryed in the issue. so no time or sources to use it.
He is geoff johns with romita JR, doesn't matter if Lobdell wrote before. Say that to bendis on x-men and guardians

[Auguste Dupin]

once with war world, and them he tried again with brainiac invasion but failed? seems like that.

takes some time to get phantom zone project that much energy, specially that the fortress was destryed in the issue. so no time or sources to use it.
He is geoff johns with romita JR, doesn't matter if Lobdell wrote before. Say that to bendis on x-men and guardians

Ho, you mean the Bendis that had a nice big renumbering both times? A nice big number 1 to bring new readers?
First rule of comic book sales: number ones sell. It helps readers to think they can jump onboard and not being lost. That's why Marvel does it all the time these days.
As for the Phantom Zone and pak thing....So, he did it twice, including the one time it didn't work. See, that's good writing. When there's an obvious solution to your problem, but you don't want to use it because it would make things too easy, you don't ignore it, because that you would be dumb and illogical for your character. What you do is you have your character try the obvious solution, only for it to fail because of something he didn't planned (Wraith sabotaged the Projector, for instance). But you need to address it, otherwise your character looks like a morron.

[Blacksun]

Ho, you mean the Bendis that had a nice big renumbering both times? A nice big number 1 to bring new readers?
First rule of comic book sales: number ones sell. It helps readers to think they can jump onboard and not being lost. That's why Marvel does it all the time these days.
As for the Phantom Zone and pak thing....So, he did it twice, including the one time it didn't work. See, that's good writing. When there's an obvious solution to your problem, but you don't want to use it because it would make things too easy, you don't ignore it, because that you would be dumb and illogical for your character. What you do is you have your character try the obvious solution, only for it to fail because of something he didn't planned (Wraith sabotaged the Projector, for instance). But you need to address it, otherwise your character looks like a morron.

new 52 also had a re-numbering and a big relaunch-reboot. Bendis do a good job, I'm thinking about read all new x-men. I really into bendis writing, also huge crush on magik and teen jean grey. new 52 had even better than bendis deal at marvel, he is just more consistent.

good writing? yes. but not the part of ignoring, snyder didn't ignored. the fortress is destroyed, he won't get the phatom zone projector to stop a giant fleet of invasors. There isn't time for that.

[Auguste Dupin]

new 52 also had a re-numbering and a big relaunch-reboot. Bendis do a good job, I'm thinking about read all new x-men. I really into bendis writing, also huge crush on magik and teen jean grey. new 52 had even better than bendis deal at marvel, he is just more consistent.

good writing? yes. but not the part of ignoring, snyder didn't ignored. the fortress is destroyed, he won't get the phatom zone projector to stop a giant fleet of invasors. There isn't time for that.

Not the Superman book, though. My point still stands.
Hell, All New X Men isn't even selling that much better than Johns on Superman. In February, it sold 58 000 againt 48 000. Considering the editorial mess that has been the Superman book, it's actually surprising.
As for the Fortress being broken.....while it has a "cover the Fortress" setting, it's not part of the Fortress. Therefore, it's destruction doesn't preventit from being used. And time isn't much of an issue for a guy who can do space travel.

[Blacksun]

Not the Superman book, though. My point still stands.
Hell, All New X Men isn't even selling that much better than Johns on Superman. In February, it sold 58 000 againt 48 000. Considering the editorial mess that has been the Superman book, it's actually surprising.
As for the Fortress being broken.....while it has a "cover the Fortress" setting, it's not part of the Fortress. Therefore, it's destruction doesn't preventit from being used. And time isn't much of an issue for a guy who can do space travel.

well if you think 10K is little difference, I don't think so.

the projector probably doesn't has the power to take down a entire fleet of invaders airships without auxiliary powers.

[Auguste Dupin]

well if you think 10K is little difference, I don't think so.

the projector probably doesn't has the power to take down a entire fleet of invaders airships without auxiliary powers.

It's noticable, but not enough to be all like "look how great Bendis is at keeping readers". It's an X Men book, written by one of Marvel's biggest writers, and we're comparing it to a book that barely manages to keep a creative team for more than 6 months. Bendis on X Men and it's not even top 10? When I started reading comics, that unimaginable.

As for the projector discussion.....well, yes obviously, so he needed a power source to give it the power needed to take down that fleet.
....
Like that concentrated solar cell bomb thingy Luthor just gave him, perhaps?
There you have it. Superman saves the day, while keeping his principles. He saves Earth, saves the alien, hell he even saves Wraith, and refuses Luthor's nihilistic philosophy while he's at it. He's being heroic, he's being smart, he's being inventive.Iin short, he's being Superman. "There's always a way", "I won't kill", that sort of stuff.