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  1. #1
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    Default In Your Face Jam - Nov 5, 2014

    Brett White takes on all the Cap Trolls and explains why people need to accept that Billy is Shazam and Carol is Captain Marvel.


    Full article here.

  2. #2
    Mighty Member andersonh1's Avatar
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    Cap Trolls? Seriously?

    There's room for more than one Captain Marvel. I'll continue to enjoy the original Captain Marvel as my favorite, thank you. DC can call him what they like, but I know better.

    Shazam!

  3. #3
    Firm Militant Judgement.. Moose100's Avatar
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    He cited Khn'nr!!! That series was excellent. Even though it was a swerve it is like one of my top stories of the last 10 years.
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  4. #4
    Scarlet Spider neonrideraryeh's Avatar
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    I agree with Mr White here. Carol is Captain Marvel. I think the name will stick, especially with the movie. She's the best fit for having the legacy of the name and I reckon Mar-Vell would be happy to know that the name continued to do good used by somebody he respected.
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  5. #5
    Mutant Midnighter NewMutant's Avatar
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    Was there really confusion between Shazam and Captain Marvel? Not that I'm aware of. I am aware of confusion between all the various Captain Marvel's at Marvel. (Hell since the movie announcement my non comic friends are getting confused between Captain America and Captain Marvel). Not to mention Carol being Ms. Marvel, Binary, Ms. Marvel, Warbird, Ms. Marvel, Captain Marvel... noticing a trend.

    "Ever since 2012 she has been the Captain Marvel"... that was 2 years ago. Well ever since 1968 she has been Ms. Marvel. Just a tad longer. She has a legacy as Ms. Marvel. And instead of viewing it as a negative that she is a "lady" hero I think of it as embracing that the fact she's a hero who is also a lady.

    Aside from the terrible hair/head gear (which is really dependent on the artist) the redesign is great. Obviously KSD's Captain Marvel has hit accord with fans and I think that's great. Once the movie comes out there won't be much more confusion.
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  6. #6

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    I don't care. Spectrum for life.

  7. #7
    ♥♥عابث سولاناس♥♥ Park Slope Pixie's Avatar
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    I like Mary Marvel better than any of them.


    My only concern with Carol Danvers' adoption of the Captain Marvel moniker is the moniker itself - a title i'm not that fond of anyway as it feels like there's a certain accepted validity associated with a traditionally male-only codename ("captain" itself lending it to traditional patriarchial hierarchy from military rank). Personally, i'm of the mindset a truly feminine codename and a fully realized gender portrayal attached to that codename is a bit more important and needed than what looks like an instance of a woman finally being allowed to play "dress up" with previously-held male-specific identities. Especially since the name's been traded around to and fro between other characters in the past, which lessens the impact anyway.
    Last edited by Park Slope Pixie; 11-05-2014 at 05:00 PM.

  8. #8
    Astonishing Member RobinFan4880's Avatar
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    I do not think most people who refuse to call Carol by her new title are misogynists. Most are simply fans of characters that used to have the mantle (and to be fair, there are 6 other Marvel characters that have held the mantle, as well as Shazam). Carol has only held the title for two years. Comic fans are nothing if not intolerant of change, even if it is change for the better. Carol just needs time to cement herself as the Captain Marvel of this generation.

    At the end of the day, I hope Captain Marvel name sticks to Carol like molasses but... A part of me cannot ignore the fact that she had a mantle that was all her own. One that was not transitory in nature like the name Captain Marvel. Ms. Marvel IS Carol. When you say Ms. Marvel, everyone thinks of Carol. There is no cross branding issues (especially cross-company branding issues) with Ms. Marvel.

    Remember, everyone thought Wally West would be THE Flash forever after Crisis on Infinite Earths. He held the mantle for 23 years before, boom, Barry comes back and rips the mantle away from Wally. That's the problem with taking a mantle that is not your own, eventually the original (or at the very least most iconic character associated with the name) will return "home" and rob you of the mantle. Two of the few mantles this has not happened with are Robin (as Dick has moved on for good (so the mantle just becomes a placeholder for a long string of new characters) and Captain Marvel (because it can never return to Billy and Mar-Vel had one of the most iconic and important deaths in comics).

    Like I said, I hope Carol gets to be Captain marvel forever more but it would not shock me if, in twenty years, she becomes Ms. Marvel again (or adopts some new identity).

  9. #9
    Mighty Member Angilasman's Avatar
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    They're both Captain Marvel. It's not an either or situation. Different characters, same name; much like how Micheal Myers is both a real-life comic actor and a fictional murderer.

    I'll probably call old-school Captain Marvel Shazam just to avoid confusion. It's like, well, I'm a Godzilla fan: many Godzilla films have different titles because of translations and what the English language distributors wanted to market the film as. To me the fifth Godzilla film will always be 'Monster Zero,' but I often call it 'Invasion of Astro Monster' because that's Toho's official English language title nowadays and I want people to have no trouble finding the film if they so desire.

    Confused?

  10. #10
    Mighty Member Angilasman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pixie_solanas View Post
    I like Mary Marvel better than any of them.
    The Jeff Smith version of that character is wonderful!

  11. #11
    captaintemerity
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    I think that continuously calling people in a professional piece "Trolls" simply because they have opinions differing from yours is far more likely to have an adverse effect on how you are perceived as a comic book fan, and more, a journalist. It does nothing to aid in making your case.

    How about this: Carol Danvers is Captain Marvel because Marvel has published her as such.

    Difficult? Nope.

    The argument that a lot of Billy Batson fans have, I believe, is that the new version of the hero they're calling Shazam has very little in common with the Captain Marvel character we grew up with. So, in our estimation, that part of your argument doesn't work either. Yes, there's a character referred to as Shazam in the New 52 DC Universe. There are, however, far more examples of Billy as Captain Marvel still out there, still winding up in print from time to time, and remembered far more fondly. Further, it seems like, looking at some other bits that DC has coming up, like Convergence, that DC may still have that old version of CM/Billy popping up in the near future.

    So, there is the Marvel version of Carol as Captain Marvel. And there was, and may still yet be, the DC/Fawcett version of Billy as Captain Marvel.

    Tantrums look stupid from all sides. Don't try to diffuse the one you don't like by throwing your own, okay?

  12. #12
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    Brett if you see this: I don't consider myself a troll, and I LOVE the fact that Carol is now Captain Marvel, and want it to stay that way permanently ... but I feel very strongly that movie MUST have SOME appearance by/reference to Mar-Vell, the original. Especially since the Kree seem primed to be very important going forward in the MCU.

    After all, Carol only receives her powers in the 1st place by being caught in an accident with Mar-Vell and their DNA mixing. It's Mar-Vell's DNA that fuels Carol, both literally and metaphorically.

    Now I'm not saying Mar-Vell needs to be a major presence in a Captain Marvel movie -- like maybe he's on screen two whole minutes, the accident happens, he dies of radiation poisoning from it (instead of Nitro like in the comics) and then 2 hours of Carol-as-CM. But Mar-Vell should be represented in a Carol-as-CM film, whether it's a reference, or a cameo, or a flashback.

    And actually of all the new slate of films announced I CANNOT wait to see Carol on the big screen.

  13. #13
    Astonishing Member Nick Miller's Avatar
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    There is only one captain Marvel and that is Katee Sackhoff!!!!

  14. #14
    Firm Militant Judgement.. Moose100's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Miller View Post
    There is only one captain Marvel and that is Katee Sackhoff!!!!
    Cosigned 1000000000% Ever since I saw her on 24!!!
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  15. #15
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    I agree with the thrust of this article, though I think it's inaccurate to suggest that fans of the Fawcett Cap who would prefer he still be called that are trolls. I think trolls are defined by trollish behavior, and simply wishing that we could have both Captains Marvel does not a troll make. I'm very happy that Carol will be this generation's Captain Marvel, and I think the name will stick.

    That said, the thing I really dislike about New 52 Shazam is that he can't introduce himself without transforming. It will be interesting to see how they handle this in the movie; in Justice League: War, he says his name, and... nothing happens.

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