In Your Face Jam - Nov 5, 2014

[amrothery]

I signed up for the forums to say just a few things:

First, Angilasman is absolutely right and DC should have reverted BIlly to the Captain Thunder name. It's not quite as cool as Captain Marvel, but it ties in well with the magic lightning and it's a name Marvel Comics has never used.

Second, Mary has as strong a claim to the Captain Marvel name as Carol does, given that she used it during the Ordway Power of Shazam run.

Third, the one true Captain Marvel is, was, and always shall be the android with the detachable limbs who fought the one, true Plastic Man (among a few others) in 1966 in a very short-lived series from M.F. Enterprises.

[Jean Grey]

Don't even know who Shazam is, but I do tend to see resistance from people sticking to Ms. Marvel and choosing to keep that rather than Cap.

[Holt]

Someone here mentioned how when people think of Ms. Marvel, they immediately think of Carol.

And what, pray tell, about those folks who came to know the mantle because of Kamala? Heck when I think of Captain Marvel I already immediately think of Carol, and this was before the announcement of her movie.

Correct. The major thing here is brand management at this point. Marvel has never had a Captain Marvel who has been hugely popular or known by the mainstream public so they're finally deciding to do so at this point with Carol as their Captain. Even before they movie they'd begun this by putting in her in the most recent Avengers animated movie, the Disney Infinity video game, and now their big Marvel LIVE stage show.





They know that like the Guardians of the Galaxy, they're aiming for a broader mainstream audience that doesn't have the same preconceived notions or biases.

[Stay Puft]

If you ask me, most of the hoopla are from folks who are being mock-offended...just so when someone brings up Marvelman/Miracleman or Captain Marvel, they can bluster and stomp to parade their superior knowledge, just because they KNEW of Captain Marvel when he was Billy Batson, before Carol Danvers was cool. I see this lots of times, such as people who get worked up over Robotech: "Don't watch it! It is a bastardization of three unrelated series...the AUDACITY! THE UNMITIGATED GAUL!" When deep down, they really don't care that much. Some people actually do care, but I propose that most don't.

Was SHAZAM! robbed of his name? Perhaps, but DC is dealing with karma since they intimidated Fawcett to drop Captain Marvel because he was so similar to Superman (but really, they were tired of the very stiff competition). That's how Marvelman came about in UK. So years later when DC later picks up Captain Marvel and then Marvel sues, DC backs off and agrees to use SHAZAM! on Captain Marvel related issues. It was indeed a ballsy move on Marvel, but that what people will do to protect their name and licenses. By the way, Mar-vell was a categorical sales failure except that Death of Captain Marvel ended up becoming one of the best stories in comic history.

[RobinFan4880]

What an stupid article...DC'S CAPTAIN WAS THE FIRST,SO HE'S THE ORIGINAL.Period.

Half true.

Fawcett's Captain Marvel was first. DC has never had the rights to the name "Captain Marvel" as they fully acquired the rights to the character long after Marvel had been making their own Captain Marvel comics.

[LtMarvel]

The author also ignores one of the more annoying aspects of the Marvel Comics Captain Marvel title:

Marvel only regularly tries out a new "Captain Marvel" series just to maintain the trademark.

Marvel learned the hard way that not doing so would cost them the trademark in the eighties when an independent publisher legally took over a trademark of one of the team names Marvel quit publishing.

Over the years, there have been more Shazam comics published than Captain Marvel. DC's version has always been more successful.

[RLAAMJR.]

I imagine Shazam when I think of Captain Marvel. and when I think of Marvel's Captain Marvel, I still think of Shazam

[Blind Otto]

A couple of thoughts...

What do folks on earth-Nu52 use to identify songs? Can't be Shazam... "Hi, I'm Shazam" "Oh yeah? Name this tune!"

Secondly, while I see, and understand all the passion for a favourite character in the article, it's worth remembering that we don't own the characters. DC and Marvel do. So, to some people, Mary Batson may well be the "one, true Captain Marvel", but that means about as much as "My favourite colour is coquelicot". 10, 20 years from now, some well-meaning idiot will almost certainly do something (else) dreadful to Carol, and suddenly we'll be hearing all the screaming about the "all new Captain Marvel".

[Coin Biter]

The whole story of the Captain Marvel name is a weird parable of the iniquities of the comic book industry.

Fawcett Comics launched Captain Marvel, who becomes the most popular superhero in the 40s, outselling Superman. In response, DC launch a copyright action and have a protracted battle fight, finally ended with an out-of-court settlement. Fawcett can't relaunch the character in the 60s, and license him to their persecutors, DC. In the meantime, though Marvel have sneakily nicked the trademark.

Back to the future, and the Captain Marvel name is being used to attempt to launch Carol Danvers as the Marvel Universe premier superheroine, who ironically finds herself overshadowed in critical acclaim and comic-readers' appreciation by another character called Ms Marvel, who's taken on one of her earlier names In the meantime the original acquired-by-DC Cap is relaunched with the name of Shazam, but in fame and popularity is a thin shadow of his Golden Age self, less popular than his chief villain.

I find it almost impossible to have much affection for anyone here, except perhaps sympathy for Fawcett Comics, and poor mistreated Billy Batson.

So far as Carol Danvers is concerned, I hope she does well in the comics and well in film, if only for her fans' sake. But Captain Marvel isn't that good a name for her. It's a perfect name for a Golden Age hero, and the sneakiness of the Mar-vell/Marvel naming has always amused me. But for Captain Marvel the modern day Marvel superheroine it sounds extremely bland and.... corporate. God, you might as well call her Captain Forbes or General KPMG.

She'd be better off with a different name. It doesn't have to include reference to gender - it's not as if she's faced with only the... Binary... alternatives of Captain Marvel or Ms Marvel.

Hell, call her Captain America, give Falcon back his moniker, and put Old Steve Rogers out to grass (Call someone else Captain Marvel, though, to maintain the poetic justice of DC being unable to use that name.)

No doubt this opinion labels me as one of the "trolls" criticised by the author, but I can't really see how not particularly liking a corporate decision by a publisher to maintain ownership of a trademark and to position itself in its movie-friendly IPs makes anyone a "troll" or a "h8r" or any other such common internet insult that demeans the person who makes it.

[rdman]

I look at this way, he is just a mouth piece for Marvel's editors. So for now Carol Danvers is the current Captain marvel -And I emphasize current.

That being said I prefer the blue skinned Kree male Mar-Vell.

[neonrideraryeh]

I'd like to add that I like Monica having the name Spectrum now. It can be an identity of her own that hopefully will not get removed. I'd like for them to continue building the character up as Spectrum and that's what she is eventually known by.

[Angilasman]

I signed up for the forums to say just a few things:

First, Angilasman is absolutely right and DC should have reverted BIlly to the Captain Thunder name. It's not quite as cool as Captain Marvel, but it ties in well with the magic lightning and it's a name Marvel Comics has never used.

It's also an easier transition for his supporting cast (Mary Thunder, Captain Thunder Jr., The Thunder Family, ect.). Shazam's a cool word, but a bad name.

Third, the one true Captain Marvel is, was, and always shall be the android with the detachable limbs who fought the one, true Plastic Man (among a few others) in 1966 in a very short-lived series from M.F. Enterprises.

Obscure comics trivia! Always a good choice.

[Sewersaint]

I've had to think about whether or not I should make a comment or not. I don't want to come across as a troll trying to derail this thread but was I the only one surprised that a man with an X belt buckle couldn't remember the names of Shadowcat, the White Queen and Mirage? Perhaps the White Queen isn't much of a code name but then neither is the Black King, so does that mean Sebastian Shaw is one of the few male characters without a code name. Like his son Shinobi. 90s X-Men comics are littered with characters without code names. Trevor Fitzroy, Fabian Cortez, Donald Pierce and even Bishop. There are female characters out there without code names like Dakota North and Jessica Jones but so are Nick Fury and Luke Cage. Elektra doesn't have a code name but then neither does Dr Strange. Basically, I think writing things that aren't quite true to make a point just doesn't help.

[afrocarter]

"Shazam" is such a terrible name; I think that's why "Cap Trolls" continue to refer to him as Captain Marvel. If DC had come up with something better, this wouldn't be as big a problem today, imo.

[RobinFan4880]

Same with Kate Bishop as Hawkeye. I've seen people calling Kate with chick Hawkeye, female Hawkeye, Hawkette. I know there's no bad intention behind it, but it's kinda reinforced that male is the default.

Male is default because Male was first. It is like when Hank Pym became Wasp. People called him Pym Wasp, Hank Wasp, Dude Wasp, Crazypants Wasp, etc. When Dick Grayson became Batman, he was referred to as "Dick-Bats" rather than Batman. When Bucky became Captain America, he was referred to as "Bucky Cap". Same thing is happening with "Falcap" and "Lady Thor".

The most iconic character to hold the mantle is the default, everyone else is differentiated, even if the most iconic version is not the original. Case in point, the Human Torch is Johnny Storm, even though he is the second Human Torch. Same is true with Nightwing (defaults to Dick, not Kal).

If there have been a lot of characters with the same name, they are differentiated by secret identity name. The Robins are labeled by name (Dick, Jason, Tim, Steph, Damian, etc.), same with Green Lanterns (Scott, Hal, John, Kyle, Simon), Blue Beetles (Dan, Ted and Jaime) and Flashes (Jay, Barry, Wally, Bart).

Kate Bishop is not most iconic version of Hawkeye, so she is differentiated. Clint Barton is not the most iconic version of Goliath, so he is differentiated. Scott Lang is not the most iconic version of Ant-Man, so he is labeled differently. Rhodey was is most definitely not the most iconic version of Iron Man, so he is differentiated. Val-Zod is labeled by name, while Calvin Ellis is labeled President Superman.