Fraction Fan Rising

[Celestialbodies]

If you like Scott then............Emma with their amazing cameo/wallpaper friends with a revolving door of who he'll let shine at the moment whether it was Namor, Wolverine, Pixie, or Magneto then his run probably fits your needs and that's okay because opinions of his run is subjective. But I'll always feel he had great ideas but the execution and focus was horrible everything that happened came back to Scott somehow, he was always pushing the narrative and other characters opinion didn't really matter. Which was a shame when you had ALL the worlds mutants available, well that and I'll never by that every mutant in the world would fall under the X-men ie, Scott's umbrella. During that period it wasn't realistic at least to me that other leaders and ideologies didn't rise up regardless of how hard Marvel pushed Scott as the spokesman for all mutantkind!!!

When it came to that, they were exactly the safe, conventional characterizations...it was the Scott/Jean/Wolverine debacle all over again with Emma and Namor as substitutes...they fit the exact same roles with Emma often acting more like Jean than Emma Frost and Namor was the same as he always was...chasing any blonde he sees with no regard for anyone else and little interest in anything else...the only difference is Emma was the only blonde that actually put out for him.

Like I said, I generally liked the run but that was just one element I could have gladly done without.

What is that? Not to single you out because it was a fairly popular theory thrown out during Fraction's run but I never understood what that meant, Emma definitely was characterized as a bit too nice but when did nice= acting like Jean Grey?

[grinningdemon]

What is that? Not to single you out because it was a fairly popular theory thrown out during Fraction's run but I never understood what that meant, Emma definitely was characterized as a bit too nice but when did nice= acting like Jean Grey?

Emma being too nice, coupled with her seeming unlimited devotion to Scott and then a retconned love triangle where she's regularly tempted by the bad boy player often made her come off as a blonde Jean Grey to me...sometimes it seemed like they were doing it on purpose because they would use it to play on her insecurities about being inferior to Jean.

I like Scott/Emma but Emma written properly would have called him out on a lot of things he pulled...and the whole Namor thing just seemed forced and specifically introduced to mirror the prior love triangle.

[Goddess]

Describing Fraction's run on X-Men as brilliant seems like a stretch, even if you're typically a fan of his work (I do enjoy Sex Criminals and Hawkeye).

The overarching machismo glorification was just not a good angle for the franchise IMO and the team's wonky misadventures were rigid, tonally uneven, and random as hell. If Marvel is turning the Inhumans into the new outcasts, Fraction certainly helped transform the X-Men into the new royal family of grade A, vegan douches.

The listing the various re-appearances and cameos of characters (despite admittedly unimpressive characterization) proves that pandering to the fanbases does indeed give you brownie points, but I stand by the idea that it still doesn't make a good story.

Yes.

When it came to that, they were exactly the safe, conventional characterizations...it was the Scott/Jean/Wolverine debacle all over again with Emma and Namor as substitutes...they fit the exact same roles with Emma often acting more like Jean than Emma Frost and Namor was the same as he always was...chasing any blonde he sees with no regard for anyone else and little interest in anything else...the only difference is Emma was the only blonde that actually put out for him.

Like I said, I generally liked the run but that was just one element I could have gladly done without.

Yes.

[Vegeta]

I was hoping the Magneto kneeling bit was a ploy on Erik's part to end up as a bigger power behind the throne thing or something. That there was something far more substantial to it then simply the X-Office's own internal desire for more Scott Summer's fellatio, but nope.

It was an average run. Outside of the concept of Utopia itself I can't really think of anything all that memorable. (The only thing that really comes to mind was the Predator-X monster.) Fraction wins points with me for his hilarious and brilliant Hawkeye, but loses points for his attitude about continuity being "the devil." Continuity is really the whole point of serialized fiction, otherwise just abandon the ongoing story all together and make every issue a stand alone one-shot.

[Celestialbodies]

Emma being too nice, coupled with her seeming unlimited devotion to Scott and then a retconned love triangle where she's regularly tempted by the bad boy player often made her come off as a blonde Jean Grey to me...sometimes it seemed like they were doing it on purpose because they would use it to play on her insecurities about being inferior to Jean.

I like Scott/Emma but Emma written properly would have called him out on a lot of things he pulled...and the whole Namor thing just seemed forced and specifically introduced to mirror the prior love triangle.

I get your intent, but being nice, supportive of your boyfriend, and tempted by someone showing you attention while said boyfriend is "preoccupied" aren't qualities exclusively associated with Jean but I guess I can see a correlation. On your second point I disagree from the moment they started sharing thoughts Emma has always held a devotion to Scott and rarely called him out lest it concerned her specifically. Contrary to popular belief while the persona Emma projects, imagines she'd call Scott out more often than not even before Fraction she supported him absolutely.

[grinningdemon]

I get your intent, but being nice, supportive of your boyfriend, and tempted by someone showing you attention while said boyfriend is "preoccupied" aren't qualities exclusively associated with Jean but I guess I can see a correlation. On your second point I disagree from the moment they started sharing thoughts Emma has always held a devotion to Scott and rarely called him out lest it concerned her specifically. Contrary to popular belief while the persona Emma projects, imagines she'd call Scott out more often than not even before Fraction she supported him absolutely.

It's all relative...the thing is we'd already seen Jean in almost that same role doing pretty much the exact same things and acting almost the same way...plus, she's a telepath and with Scott...all these things plus a mirror love triangle and it's hard not to make the correlation.

Emma supported him before Fraction, sure...but she did question him on occasion and especially when she was being taken for granted...which is something she pretty much stopped doing all together during Fraction's run and carried through to Gillen's...that and her snarky attitude largely went away so it just didn't seem much like Emma anymore.

[Rivka]

Fraction's run was fucking brilliant.

I was the ONLY one supporting his run here.

Me too! I supported and praised him, too. I love Fraction's X-MEN run. For years we complained about the boring sameness, and Matt Fraction tried new things. Moving the X-Men to San Francisco, then Utopia, making Cyclops the new leader, bringing back Magneto and bringing back Kitty Pryde. He tried new things, revised older characters, without destroying continuity and history. I even defended Greg Land, except for the smiles. Everyone was smiling that smirky little smile even when the dialogue indicated some serious, soulful action and discussion.

I love the Fraction/Gillen team and then Gillen's run followed, and I love Gillen's X-Men, too.

[Rivka]

I think I might be the only one who reads that scene the way I do. I saw Magneto dismissing the old leadership (look how he was with Xavier), pulling all eyes to himself, and making a grandiose gesture where he displayed more arrogance from his knees than most other villains can pull off when they hove the world on theirs.

No, I agree with you, and said so at the time. If you were on these boards back then, you'll remember all the arguments we had about that Magneto moment. Magneto was totally in control of that situation. He was genuinely alienated and realized that Cyclops was the new leader, and he wanted to be a part of the new Utopia. It was all symbolic and grandiose, replete with Shakespeare reference. Above all, in kneeling before Scott Summers he was dissing Xavier. It was calculated and brilliant on Mags' part.

[Park Slope Pixie]

When it came to that, they were exactly the safe, conventional characterizations...it was the Scott/Jean/Wolverine debacle all over again with Emma and Namor as substitutes...they fit the exact same roles with Emma often acting more like Jean than Emma Frost and Namor was the same as he always was...chasing any blonde he sees with no regard for anyone else and little interest in anything else...the only difference is Emma was the only blonde that actually put out for him.

Like I said, I generally liked the run but that was just one element I could have gladly done without.

Go back and re-read. Emma's the one character in complete control, everytime. If you quantify her contributions as merely "putting out for Scott", then that's a gross misinterpretation of the source material.

Instead of the tired trope of two macho dudes fighting out for the fey damsel, here was a strong, independent female character playing off two suitors, using each and their respective strengths like an a la carte dinner service.

[grinningdemon]

Go back and re-read. Emma's the one character in complete control, everytime. If you quantify her contributions as merely "putting out for Scott", then that's a gross misinterpretation of the source material.

Instead of the tired trope of two macho dudes fighting out for the fey damsel, here was a strong, independent female character playing off two suitors, using each and their respective strengths like an a la carte dinner service.

I think you're the one that needs to go back and re-read the earlier stuff with Scott/Jean/Wolverine...because it was depicted in basically the same way you're explaining this...Scott & Logan didn't actually start fighting over Jean until she was dead...and, when I said Emma was putting out, I was talking about for Namor...not Scott...she's the only blonde he's chased that he ever got anywhere with...I don't think that run makes Emma look particularly strong or independent...it mostly makes her look insecure in the way they always used Namor to point out how Scott was mistreating her and how she just took it and let it keep getting worse until it really escalated in Gillen's run.

But I guess we just have different interpretations.

[vitamin]

It was campy, think green Michael Bay movie with a lotsa Imma make you a sandwich women and gigantic plot holes.

I kinda have an enormous soft spot for all its ridiculousness. Sisterhood was a masterpiece in mysogony (opting blasting Maddie's ghost crotch being obvious indication).

[jollygoldfish]

pointless sex?

The correct terminology is carnal positivity, thank you.

Rather than a comic book, I think what you're looking for then is superhero roleplay porn or better yet, engaging in roleplay action IRL. If that's the standard against which you measure your comics, then I agree Fraction/Land is tops.

Go back and re-read. Emma's the one character in complete control, everytime. If you quantify her contributions as merely "putting out for Scott", then that's a gross misinterpretation of the source material.

Instead of the tired trope of two macho dudes fighting out for the fey damsel, here was a strong, independent female character playing off two suitors, using each and their respective strengths like an a la carte dinner service.

grinningdemon is right. When was Emma shown in control and not Scott? When did Emma ever use Scott? She played Namor but she never would or never could play Scott that way. Scott never felt threatened or uneasy in his relationship with Emma so he never made an effort for her. It was Emma who prioritized his needs over hers.

[vitamin]

Emma showed control when she took Shaw from the Brig to kill him on the other side of the world with Fanto and Kitty.
But the flip side of it was Fraction making Emma Shaw's lil victim.

[Celestialbodies]

Emma showed control when she took Shaw from the Brig to kill him on the other side of the world with Fanto and Kitty.
But the flip side of it was Fraction making Emma Shaw's lil victim.

The biggest problem with Fraction's Emma she wasn't allowed to do much without being undermined, originally she and Shaw were equals she wasn't some failed stripped, who was the victim to all these powerful men Shaw in particular. He in trying to whitewash her past made her less of the character readers came to love!

[AJpyro]

So rereading the run again, did beast getting tortured by that machine by Dark Beast lead to his next mutation?