Examples of Editorial Sabotage that happened in DC comics

[Rakzo]

I read the other side of the argument before I posted.

Well, if you did, then I got nothing to say.

[5Eyes]

No he was always suppose to die. Every major writer on the batbooks has testified that they knew he was going to die even before the reboot was underway.

Well that's good to know .. I would hate to think that a great character was killed off because they didn't know what to do with him because of an event they created...

Anyway I'm not sure if bringing him back is good or bad idea yet, I'm leaning toward yes

[ShazamHusker]

Regarding the Static Shock controversy, I just had a chance to read both Rozum and McDaniel’s arguments** on what went down with the book. They were both interesting with McDaniel’s going into more detail, but both giving a peek underneath the curtain (and I’m a sucker for the behind-the-scenes-goings-on).

Some thoughts –

I think Rozum may have felt a bit of entitlement from a legacy perspective. He knew the creator of the character; he had worked with the character. His focus was in honoring those things. He was also the writer, who felt he know where to go with it.

McDaniel came in with a fresh approach to the character, but seemed to be focused on the editorial mandate, so, even if editorial didn’t agree, it sounds like he was doing what he thought they wanted (whereas Rozum’s approach may have been different). He also had concerns about the books future due to the polls and initial sales figures, which Rozum didn’t necessarily concern himself with.

It sounds like they were ill-fitted from the start. If we take McDaniel’s word for it and it was more of a collaboration from the beginning, he still comes across as pretty hands-on with everything. I’m not saying that’s a bad approach, but it obviously wasn’t something that worked for Rozum. I’m sure that could get really annoying. Then again, McDaniel seemed to have the ear of the editor in a way that Rozum didn’t (either by choice or otherwise). So, even if McDaniel was in the right, Rozum would still be the “people’s champion” because people will forever see McDaniel aligned with the powers-that-be.

Hopefully I was fair in my assessment as, if we can take them both at their word, I can see both sides of the arguments. The end result may have been the same, regardless of how events had transpired, but I don’t think Harvey did either any favors in this. It seems like things could have been hashed out better – “you both want this to succeed right? Then we all need to find some common ground or it is doomed to fail” – or steps taken to separate the two once it became apparent they weren’t working well together.

Very interesting stuff and thanks for sharing!


**I haven’t read any of the comments on those two sites (McDaniel’s first page of comments is all spam, so I wasn’t sure how much to continue looking) for additional conversation.

[PlumeNoir]

Was not editorial. A comics news outlet (a 976 phone number, for those who remember them) discovered who Monarch was while the Armageddon 2001 storyline was still going on. DC then changed it to Hawk to have the reveal be a surprise. This, of course, upset many fans as DC wasn't exactly subtle in pointing the finger at Captain Atom during the entire storyline. Also, Hawk and Dove were the only two characters that were shown--in story--to have absolutely no chance whatsoever at becoming Monarch.

I know this was posted a few days ago, but I felt I had to reply. I have seen the 976 number mentioned many times about this, but I can assure you, everyone knew it was going to be Captain Atom from nearly before the first issue of the event shipped.

Our LCS had those little checklists of all the tie-in issues they used to give out. I remember my best friend and I going over it and thinking, "Hmmmm, can't be Batman or Superman, because Waverider keeps going back to check them." (Not that we thought it would be them, of course.) We discussed it and said, "Well, he'll stop when he finds Monarch. What's the last annual? JLE. Okay, who is on JLE? It won't be Flash and probably not Metamorpho. I doubt they'd make it Power Girl and no way it's Crimson Fox. Who's left on the team that is pretty powerful? Oh yeah, Didn't Captain Atom just have a series that ended...?"

I bring this up because it's funny to me that the 976 number always gets credit, when it fact, it was obvious from the start who it was to be.

My personal editorial sabotage (and I know it's been mentioned) would be Emerald Twilight. Mind you, I actually liked what they were doing with Hal (it was just rushed and sloppy); he had gotten stale, and DC had a chance to make him a really conflicted knight templar character...which, of course, they completely screwed up afterward. But that's not worst part of it to me. GL: Mosaic was so good and even Guy Gardner: Warrior was starting to hit a stride. (GG:W doesn't get enough credit for moving Guy from just being an angry, stupid character to more what he is now.) Losing Mosaic and Guy going into the alien heritage thing hurt.

[John Venus]

But many of them actually were.

"Pale Man", more like "Poor Man's Joker".

And he owns up all his ideas. He basically said, 'these were my ideas and those were his. Whether you like them or not, is up to you. However, these ideas I never had in the first place is impacting my other work so I want to set the record clear on this'.

And for the record, I have read Scott McDaniel's side as well.

[Kurosawa]

COIE would be the ultimate editorial "sabotage," since it destroyed even that many more multiple universes, directly and indirectly.

Absolutely. It's also the single worst thing to ever happen to DC Comics.

[BohemiaDrinker]

COIE would be the ultimate editorial "sabotage," since it destroyed even that many more multiple universes, directly and indirectly.

Well, not really. COIE was planned way ahead and pretty much executed according to such plans. There were some editorial contests (JSA survived because of Roy Thomas, I think) and some eleventh hour decisions (Wally as Flash), but overall it was fair game as far as I know.

A case could be made about negative editorial influence shortly before (Barry Allen) and shortly after (some tidbits in Byrne's Superman and Perez's WW).

It may count as a development many don't like, but editorial was fair game.

[The Darknight Detective]

Well, not really. COIE was planned way ahead and pretty much executed according to such plans. There were some editorial contests (JSA survived because of Roy Thomas, I think) and some eleventh hour decisions (Wally as Flash), but overall it was fair game as far as I know.

A case could be made about negative editorial influence shortly before (Barry Allen) and shortly after (some tidbits in Byrne's Superman and Perez's WW).

It may count as a development many don't like, but editorial was fair game.

I had "sabotage" in quotes, so I am skeptical about using that anyway in regard to editorial changes. If there's any sabotage (which is basically cutting off your nose to spite your face), it's very, very rare. My point was COIE destroyed more worlds than the New 52 ever did. The original Multiverse had many more parallel universes than the second one did. That's just a fact. It also directly/indirectly led to many changes down the road within a couple of years. Now, unlike some naysayers about the New 52, I grew to like the post-COIE universe. Yet, it's impossible to disagree with the notion that it wasn't less damaging than the New 52. The only caveat to that is the New 52 changed things faster - the Band-Aid was torn off much more quickly than COIE.

[Rakzo]

And he owns up all his ideas. He basically said, 'these were my ideas and those were his. Whether you like them or not, is up to you. However, these ideas I never had in the first place is impacting my other work so I want to set the record clear on this'.

And for the record, I have read Scott McDaniel's side as well.

Of course, but as McDaniel mentioned, Rozum seems to be creating a situation that mostly existed in his head.