SUPERMAN: Convergence

[BBally]

All that said, I really don't want to add to the "New 52 Sucks!" mentality. I really do like a lot of what they've done, and I'm definitely not willing to classify the Post-Flashpoint Superman, mister t-shirt-and-armor, as somehow not the "Real Superman". They're equally the real Superman, except for maybe the Golden Age version, who might be a little more real than the others.

Thank you! That's how I feel, I've been sick of "Real Superman" talk since I discovered Pre-Crisis fans whining about how the Post Crisis Superman was a "pretender".

[Blacksun]

The FF are a relic from the silver age and struggling even harder than Superman himself. Luke's marriage to Jessica hasn't been a well of stories either from what I've seen.

FF is with some problems, but no one goes blaming the marriage and kids, Hickman still doing a good job on it, Reed and Susan are playing a big role on the future of Marvel universe.Superman is doing what on DCnU? Problem is the the following of his run was pretty poor; and Marvel will give FF a time out, like they did with thor.
yep I don't think they did that much with cage and jones marriage, but: Marvel didn't break up it. it still can have great stories on the future.

[Ascended]

There has been a lot written that the Convergence storylines will just be closure for the pre52 stories.I hope not! I would prefer a combination of pre52 and new 52, which if the writers pick and choose carefully coul please most people.

I figure that aspects of the old continuity will make their way into the main universe. Its how DC rolls. Zero Hour brought some things back, Infinite Crisis and One Year Later did as well. The only real questions are how DC will do it (big cosmic adventure or under the table changes) and when (Convergence, 2015 Crisis anniversary, or over time in individual books).

There are things I'd love to see brought back, just as long as DC doesnt make the same mistake they always do and end up shooting themselves in the foot by making all the wrong changes and then running with them into a wall.

[Ascended]

Yeah, the problem with Chris Kent was less the concept and more the execution. A lot of us were asking to see Clark and Lois take the next natural step in their lives, but what we got was not it. I have never understood why comic book writers cant write families or children. Many of these writers have kids of their own so its not like its a mindset or life style they cant understand. Its really not that hard to balance the qualities of family life with the larger-than-life drama of superheroics. But then the quality of the Super-books back then was at a real low point.

closure? Stephanie brown had a amazing send off in her last issue. Nothing will ever tops that. so I don't see anything attractive in a closure, since no fan ever asked for it. Never saw a fan asking for closure, but for new stories set in that continuity

If people had been happy with the old continuity DC would never have rebooted in the first place.

[Blacksun]

I pretty sure many people were happy with pre new 52 universe, at least some aspects. the same people in charge of pre new 52, are in charge of new 52. they messed up things, not the fans that didn't asked for a reboot

[Ascended]

I pretty sure many people were happy with pre new 52 universe, at least some aspects. the same people in charge of pre new 52, are in charge of new 52. they messed up things, not the fans that didn't asked for a reboot

Oh, we were all happy with some aspects. DC still had a few good books out there, like REBELS and Secret Six and the Green Lantern titles. And yes, the same people being in charge is a major part of the problem (its something I had issue with at the time of the reboot). And no, fans were not asking for a reboot (well, not many of us) but we did want a change in direction and tone and quality stories. DC tried to provide that and drum up some profits again. The media attention of a reboot was part of that plan. Whether things improved or not is subjective, though it feels like its largely the same as it was before. Some properties have benefited, some have not, some are still at the same quality level. I'll argue all day about how the reboot ruined some properties, but Superman is one of the franchises that benefited the most.

[Sacred Knight]

There has been a lot written that the Convergence storylines will just be closure for the pre52 stories.I hope not! I would prefer a combination of pre52 and new 52, which if the writers pick and choose carefully coul please most people.

I'd rather they not go a pick and choose route. It causes more problems than it fixes. If they want to change back a New 52 product whose original changes didn't take, that's cool, but just do a retcon or visual change where necessary. If they want to explore more of these old continuity characters, start a new title outside the New 52 dedicated to such. But in regards to the main line, we already have a multiverse, and a frequent crossing over with Earth 2. We don't need the main Earth to then also have different characters from entirely different multiverses around. That's convoluted.

[Blacksun]

Oh, we were all happy with some aspects. DC still had a few good books out there, like REBELS and Secret Six and the Green Lantern titles. And yes, the same people being in charge is a major part of the problem (its something I had issue with at the time of the reboot). And no, fans were not asking for a reboot (well, not many of us) but we did want a change in direction and tone and quality stories. DC tried to provide that and drum up some profits again. The media attention of a reboot was part of that plan. Whether things improved or not is subjective, though it feels like its largely the same as it was before. Some properties have benefited, some have not, some are still at the same quality level. I'll argue all day about how the reboot ruined some properties, but Superman is one of the franchises that benefited the most.

Batman line was pretty ok, Stephanie Brown Batgirl was great(now batgirl is pretty good, but is hardly a improvement from BQM witing batgirl) , Red Robin was pretty good, Cass cain was still there, Supergirl was good too( sterling gates had more than 20 issues planned), Nick spencer and amy reeder wanted to do a young justice book with Supergirl leading the book. There was still many things that I was looking forward. Probably there was other good books that I didn't read 'cause I was starting and the reboot news started.
the property that most benefited was batman related including harley quinn. the rest? some better numbers, but hardly anything exciting.
Reboot completely trashed the most famous all female group birds of prey. there's no purpose for it on new 52

I'd rather they not go a pick and choose route. It causes more problems than it fixes. If they want to change back a New 52 product whose original changes didn't take, that's cool, but just do a retcon or visual change where necessary. If they want to explore more of these old continuity characters, start a new title outside the New 52 dedicated to such. But in regards to the main line, we already have a multiverse, and a frequent crossing over with Earth 2. We don't need the main Earth to then also have different characters from entirely different multiverses around. That's convoluted.

I prefer pick and choose. superman has too many books, if was the case of Spider-man tha tonly has one and there rest are AUs it would work. but launch another with the same characters like a ultimate line will fail.

[Flash Gordon]

Most likely pass on this. GROUNDED completely killed this version of Superman for me.

Plus I'm sure they'll just be used as cannon fodder for the big event (ala the deplorable treatment of Kal-L).

[Clark_Kent]

In regards to "closure", or a "proper sendoff", I dunno. I thought the character had all the closure it needed Pre-Flashpoint. I know, I know, it's blasphemy to say that but for me, it's true. Lois & Clark were happy, the future "Superman Incorporated" idea and the Fortress of Solidarity concept was in place, Lex Luthor was (more than likely) dead for real, and Doomsday was finally difinitively defeated for all-time. Post Crisis, Pre-Flashpoint Superman won, and it ended with Lois & Superman literally flying off into the sunset, and Superman winking at the camera. Sounded pretty good to me.

[Dispenser Of Truth]

In regards to "closure", or a "proper sendoff", I dunno. I thought the character had all the closure it needed Pre-Flashpoint. I know, I know, it's blasphemy to say that but for me, it's true. Lois & Clark were happy, the future "Superman Incorporated" idea and the Fortress of Solidarity concept was in place, Lex Luthor was (more than likely) dead for real, and Doomsday was finally difinitively defeated for all-time. Post Crisis, Pre-Flashpoint Superman won, and it ended with Lois & Superman literally flying off into the sunset, and Superman winking at the camera. Sounded pretty good to me.

Yeah, I was actually pretty happy with it too, for the reasons you said.



And of course, that story involved bringing DC One Million back into continuity, so in the even longer run, you end up with this:




..and that's fine with me. But at the same time, neither of those stories were intended as The End of the Post-Crisis Superman the way Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow? was intended as a sendoff for the Pre-Crisis version, they were regular stories with denouements tacked onto the end. I'm fine with a more proper conclusion, so long as it doesn't end with him sacrificing himself to save the New 52 (not with a baby on the way).

[andersonh1]

I'm looking forward to a lot of the Convergence minis, but I'm more enthusiastic about the Superman story than any of the others. I hope they do the characters justice.

I miss this Superman. I really do. It'll be good to see him again.

[Blacksun]

Yeah, I was actually pretty happy with it too, for the reasons you said.



And of course, that story involved bringing DC One Million back into continuity, so in the even longer run, you end up with this:




..and that's fine with me. But at the same time, neither of those stories were intended as The End of the Post-Crisis Superman the way Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow? was intended as a sendoff for the Pre-Crisis version, they were regular stories with denouements tacked onto the end. I'm fine with a more proper conclusion, so long as it doesn't end with him sacrificing himself to save the New 52 (not with a baby on the way).

I think I prefer like how it ended. it was pretty much what happened with the batgirl.
DC can always screw up what was fine

[Sacred Knight]

I prefer pick and choose. superman has too many books, if was the case of Spider-man tha tonly has one and there rest are AUs it would work. but launch another with the same characters like a ultimate line will fail.

I wasn't necessarily thinking a Superman-specific book, rather an anthology book that would feature the adventures of many surviving characters of the old continuities.

[Blacksun]

I wasn't necessarily thinking a Superman-specific book, rather an anthology book that would feature the adventures of many surviving characters of the old continuities.

I don't know, DC publishes and is publishing anthologies that covered many continuities. DC has many possibilities of Aus that multiversity gave, better make ongoings. anthologies aren't a attractive format, and people will start saying that no one wants to buy pre new 52.