Anyone else fed up with the Bat Family?

[EdwardNigma]

I for one am tired of the 800 members of the Bat family. Batman is supposed to be a loner yet anymore the scenario is more like this: "Well Two Face is loose. Let's call in Huntress, Red Hood, Robin, Red Robin, Batwoman, Nightwing, Cyborg Robin, Darkwing Duck, and Knight/Squire to handle him."

Batman should be alone with Alfred as the person to bounce things off of. MAYBE Robin on some rare case but it is ridiculous. I honestly don't see how any villain really has a chance against an armada of people which removes the element of danger. Don't get me wrong. I like Nightwing but keep him in his own book. Keep Batman as a loner so he can truly take on an enemy and at least give the illusion of danger. Anyone else feel this way?

[LoneNecromancer]

Are you even reading the main Batman book right now? It's not even set in a time frame when any of those characters are around.

[John Venus]

Batman's never truly been a loner. He is the traumatized orphan who lost his family but either sub consciously/consciously has created a new family.

Whether you look at Batman from 50's, 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's 00's and the 10's, he has always had allies with him and the Bat Family grows before each retcon wipes them away. At the very least, he always has had Robin by his side. Batman was only a loner for about a year before Robin was introduced into the comics because Bill Finger wanted to give him someone to talk to and Robin even predates Alfred. I am not a fan of the idea of Robin being downplayed in the mythos, he is just as iconic as Batman, he is the Watson to Bruce's Holmes, his companion, his adopted son (the link which helps to humanize Batman) and the one character who can actually change in the Bat Mythos.

There are too many great characters within the Bat Family to ever really get rid of them all. Plus, it's a big city and not all of them operate in Gotham so I don't see what the problem is.

[Legato]

Batman's never truly been a loner. He is the traumatized orphan who lost his family but either sub consciously/consciously has created a new family.

Whether you look at Batman from 50's, 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's 00's and the 10's, he has always had allies with him and the Bat Family grows before each retcon wipes them away. At the very least, he always has had Robin by his side. Batman was only a loner for about a year before Robin was introduced into the comics because Bill Finger wanted to give him someone to talk to and Robin even predates Alfred. I am not a fan of the idea of Robin being downplayed in the mythos, he is just as iconic as Batman, he is the Watson to Bruce's Holmes, his companion, his adopted son (the link which helps to humanize Batman) and the one character who can actually change in the Bat Mythos.

There are too many great characters within the Bat Family to ever really get rid of them all. Plus, it's a big city and not all of them operate in Gotham so I don't see what the problem is.

Quoted for truth. That and it's the supporting cast that helps keeps Batman grounded and not risk ending up like the rest of the rogues gallery.

[OBrianTallent]

Batman's never truly been a loner. He is the traumatized orphan who lost his family but either sub consciously/consciously has created a new family.

Whether you look at Batman from 50's, 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's 00's and the 10's, he has always had allies with him and the Bat Family grows before each retcon wipes them away. At the very least, he always has had Robin by his side. Batman was only a loner for about a year before Robin was introduced into the comics because Bill Finger wanted to give him someone to talk to and Robin even predates Alfred. I am not a fan of the idea of Robin being downplayed in the mythos, he is just as iconic as Batman, he is the Watson to Bruce's Holmes, his companion, his adopted son (the link which helps to humanize Batman) and the one character who can actually change in the Bat Mythos.

There are too many great characters within the Bat Family to ever really get rid of them all. Plus, it's a big city and not all of them operate in Gotham so I don't see what the problem is.

This is the answer to that statement. I'm not sure where this notion of Batman being the lone dark knight came from, but it has never been accurate with the exception of what...the first two stories ever?

[The Red Monk]

Batman's never truly been a loner. He is the traumatized orphan who lost his family but either sub consciously/consciously has created a new family.

Whether you look at Batman from 50's, 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's 00's and the 10's, he has always had allies with him and the Bat Family grows before each retcon wipes them away. At the very least, he always has had Robin by his side. Batman was only a loner for about a year before Robin was introduced into the comics because Bill Finger wanted to give him someone to talk to and Robin even predates Alfred. I am not a fan of the idea of Robin being downplayed in the mythos, he is just as iconic as Batman, he is the Watson to Bruce's Holmes, his companion, his adopted son (the link which helps to humanize Batman) and the one character who can actually change in the Bat Mythos.

There are too many great characters within the Bat Family to ever really get rid of them all. Plus, it's a big city and not all of them operate in Gotham so I don't see what the problem is.

Having someone to talk to was vital back in the 40's for Batman to explain the plot to the audience without it being too obvious.

It's much less needed nowadays when comics have much better ways to get around this problem.

Also, I absolutely despise the whole "keep Batman grounded" rubbish. It's the same kind of crap that gave us Bat-Jerk. No, thank you.

At most, Batman should have a Robin, preferably the original, Dick Grayson, as an additional costumed crime-fighter. Beyond that is pushing it.

And most of the Bat-Family characters are not that great, anyway. Helena Bertinelli was an annoying waste of space. Jason Todd should still be dead. Tim Drake is pointless, as is Stephanie Brown. Cassandra Cain was shoe-horned into the Bat-Family because DC couldn't think of anywhere else to put her. Damian Wayne should never be brought back again.

Only Dick Grayson and Barbara Gordon are, more or less, decent characters.

[Legato]

Having someone to talk to was vital back in the 40's for Batman to explain the plot to the audience without it being too obvious.

It's much less needed nowadays when comics have much better ways to get around this problem.

Also, I absolutely despise the whole "keep Batman grounded" rubbish. It's the same kind of crap that gave us Bat-Jerk. No, thank you.

At most, Batman should have a Robin, preferably the original, Dick Grayson, as an additional costumed crime-fighter. Beyond that is pushing it.

And most of the Bat-Family characters are not that great, anyway. Helena Bertinelli was an annoying waste of space. Jason Todd should still be dead. Tim Drake is pointless, as is Stephanie Brown. Cassandra Cain was shoe-horned into the Bat-Family because DC couldn't think of anywhere else to put her. Damian Wayne should never be brought back again.

Only Dick Grayson and Barbara Gordon are, more or less, decent characters.

No its the whole lets make Batman a loner mess that made him a jerk. Also saying the Bat-Family should be excluded is nothing but fanboy nonsense.

[Fused]

I often enjoy reading about Superman and Batman supporting operatives more so than the headliners themselves.

[Jim Kelly]

I'm not one of those who is totally against a Batman family and only wants a loner Batman, but for most of the character's existence his family has never been as big (and in so many titles) as now. And there were many times when the family was rather small.

Yeah, the first days of the solo Batman in 1939--with only Commissioner Gordon and Julie Madison in his extended family--only lasted a short time, and some people put too much focus on that development period. But it's not like the family went through a population explosion. Robin was added and then Alfred. And that's how it stayed for a good long time. Between 1954 and 1961, the family grew a bit (with Ace, Batwoman, Bat-Mite and Batgirl--plus a few one-off characters), but this was a gradual development.

In 1964, when Julie Schwartz took over--most of the family members were ignored and Alfred was killed off. That left just Batman, Robin, Gordon--and Aunt Harriet, who never really seemed to do much in the comic books (she had a greater role on the TV show). That TV show brought Alfred back to life and then introduced a new Batgirl. But in the early '70s, Robin had left and had his own solo adventures (in back-up stories, plus occasional team-ups with Batman). The early '70s saw a new stripped down approach--not so much family stuff, or costumed crooks. Batgirl left to become a congressswoman. So most Batman stories just featured Alfred or Gordon as supporting characters--it was mainly all about Batman. However, this was when Man-Bat was introduced as a kind of anti-hero.

The Batman family grew again in the mid to late '70s, with the publication of BATMAN FAMILY. But in the '80s, there were again efforts to limit the size of the family. Batwoman was killed off--the Earth-Two counterparts were written out and killed off--Batgirl was confined to a wheelchair--Robin II was killed off. By the late '80s, Batman was back to being stripped of most family members except Alfred, Gordon and Nightwing (for about a year between late '88 and late '89).

The steady growth of the Batman family started up again with the introduction of Tim Drake. The success of yet another Robin--with his own ongoing title in 1993--seemed to trigger the expansion of the Batman family into more titles. And that has been the game plan eversince--with the family swelling and shrinking in size--but DC always trying to increase their market share by having a number of Bat titles to dominate the market.

It seems to me these characters are Batman family members for purely commercial reasons--for market share--rather than artistic reasons. In the past Batman teamed up with lots of DC universe characters, but they weren't defacto Batman family members. Black Canary, Wildcat, the Demon, Elongated Man, Nemesis, Katana--these were characters in their own right. Creators could have just as easily created all new characters or used those old characters--as occasional operatives working with Batman. The only reason for these characters to be Bat-something characters is to make a clear association with Batman, so they can sell more comic books.

[ABH]

The OP seems to be reading the wrong Bat-books...

[The Man From Room X]

I for one am tired of the 800 members of the Bat family. Batman is supposed to be a loner yet anymore the scenario is more like this: "Well Two Face is loose. Let's call in Huntress, Red Hood, Robin, Red Robin, Batwoman, Nightwing, Cyborg Robin, Darkwing Duck, and Knight/Squire to handle him."

Batman should be alone with Alfred as the person to bounce things off of. MAYBE Robin on some rare case but it is ridiculous. I honestly don't see how any villain really has a chance against an armada of people which removes the element of danger. Don't get me wrong. I like Nightwing but keep him in his own book. Keep Batman as a loner so he can truly take on an enemy and at least give the illusion of danger. Anyone else feel this way?

Orrrrr you could just read the million or so books where Batman is the solo star.

[John Venus]

Having someone to talk to was vital back in the 40's for Batman to explain the plot to the audience without it being too obvious.

It's much less needed nowadays when comics have much better ways to get around this problem.

Also, I absolutely despise the whole "keep Batman grounded" rubbish. It's the same kind of crap that gave us Bat-Jerk. No, thank you.

At most, Batman should have a Robin, preferably the original, Dick Grayson, as an additional costumed crime-fighter. Beyond that is pushing it.

And most of the Bat-Family characters are not that great, anyway. Helena Bertinelli was an annoying waste of space. Jason Todd should still be dead. Tim Drake is pointless, as is Stephanie Brown. Cassandra Cain was shoe-horned into the Bat-Family because DC couldn't think of anywhere else to put her. Damian Wayne should never be brought back again.

Only Dick Grayson and Barbara Gordon are, more or less, decent characters.

-Batman became the Bat Jerk around the same time writers elevated him to the Bat God who could beat the Justice League with his contingency plan.

-Exposition isn't just the only role Robin fulfilled as I have listed.

-The rest of the stuff you said about Huntress, Cass Cain, Damian Wayne and Jason Todd are pretty much your own opinion as each of those characters have plenty of fans who would say otherwise.

[Carabas]

I am a whole lot more tired of the grim Bruce Wayne Batman than of his extended supporting cast.

[John Venus]

I'm not one of those who is totally against a Batman family and only wants a loner Batman, but for most of the character's existence his family has never been as big (and in so many titles) as now. And there were many times when the family was rather small.

Yeah, the first days of the solo Batman in 1939--with only Commissioner Gordon and Julie Madison in his extended family--only lasted a short time, and some people put too much focus on that development period. But it's not like the family went through a population explosion. Robin was added and then Alfred. And that's how it stayed for a good long time. Between 1954 and 1961, the family grew a bit (with Ace, Batwoman, Bat-Mite and Batgirl--plus a few one-off characters), but this was a gradual development.

In 1964, when Julie Schwartz took over--most of the family members were ignored and Alfred was killed off. That left just Batman, Robin, Gordon--and Aunt Harriet, who never really seemed to do much in the comic books (she had a greater role on the TV show). That TV show brought Alfred back to life and then introduced a new Batgirl. But in the early '70s, Robin had left and had his own solo adventures (in back-up stories, plus occasional team-ups with Batman). The early '70s saw a new stripped down approach--not so much family stuff, or costumed crooks. Batgirl left to become a congressswoman. So most Batman stories just featured Alfred or Gordon as supporting characters--it was mainly all about Batman. However, this was when Man-Bat was introduced as a kind of anti-hero.

The Batman family grew again in the mid to late '70s, with the publication of BATMAN FAMILY. But in the '80s, there were again efforts to limit the size of the family. Batwoman was killed off--the Earth-Two counterparts were written out and killed off--Batgirl was confined to a wheelchair--Robin II was killed off. By the late '80s, Batman was back to being stripped of most family members except Alfred, Gordon and Nightwing (for about a year between late '88 and late '89).

The steady growth of the Batman family started up again with the introduction of Tim Drake. The success of yet another Robin--with his own ongoing title in 1993--seemed to trigger the expansion of the Batman family into more titles. And that has been the game plan eversince--with the family swelling and shrinking in size--but DC always trying to increase their market share by having a number of Bat titles to dominate the market.

It seems to me these characters are Batman family members for purely commercial reasons--for market share--rather than artistic reasons. In the past Batman teamed up with lots of DC universe characters, but they weren't defacto Batman family members. Black Canary, Wildcat, the Demon, Elongated Man, Nemesis, Katana--these were characters in their own right. Creators could have just as easily created all new characters or used those old characters--as occasional operatives working with Batman. The only reason for these characters to be Bat-something characters is to make a clear association with Batman, so they can sell more comic books.

That's a good summary of the Family's growth. Though I would say the point where it really started swelling was when Grant Morrison brought back the 'Batmen of All Nations' and started up Batman Inc.

I am fine with the Bat Books being their own little world so long as the all the satellite titles and team books have their own clearly defined purpose.

[Legato]

I often enjoy reading about Superman and Batman supporting operatives more so than the headliners themselves.

No argument on that one.