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  1. #1
    Astonishing Member Killerbee911's Avatar
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    Default Meaningful deaths and Death in the X-men Franchise

    Meaningful deaths and Death in the X-men Franchise

    With the current status quo it might be a while before see X-character die again. In HoxPoX main thread this point was made about deaths


    Quote Originally Posted by hawkeyefan View Post
    I think a big part of what he did was to acknowledge how stupid it is to kill characters off without a really, really compelling reason to do so. Has there ever really been a poignant X-Men death?

    I think Jean’s death at the end of Dark Phoenix is likely the only one that qualifies. But that was a long time ago and undone a long time ago.

    Have there been any since?

    Colossus sacrificing himself to cure the Legacy Virus? Seemed really contrived to me. Illyana’s death to motivate him in the first place? A two-fer, with a bit of fridging just for the hell of it!

    Any other even remotely meaningful?

    Maybe go all the way back to Thunderbird? An argument could be made that his death showed there were stakes in the (then) new era.

    I can’t think of any X-Men deaths that were handled so well I’d prefer they stand.
    The X-franchise has devalued death a lot to the point where X-men on the actual page where making jokes about coming to life. X-men come back to life so much that the characters aren't even surprised by it. So if the characters aren't surprised or touched then fanbase surely isn't affected. Which leads to the questions

    1.Which X-men death has been poignant to you?

    2. Have there been deaths in recent years that you think were well done, What was the last meaningful death in the franchise ?

    3. Does resurrecting a character make the death meaningless?

    4. Can you have deaths without "fridging" because aren't all deaths meant to motivate/effect another character?

    5.Do surprise pointless deaths have place in comics, Do we need random deaths to simulate the pointless deaths in real life.

    I guess let's talk about death in the X-men franchise.

  2. #2
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    IMO Kyle and Yost indulged in pretty tasteless death porn in the New X-Men which also reduced Emma/Scott to incompetent Headmasters who couldn't even protect their students.
    Last edited by Desmark; Yesterday at 01:30 AM.

  3. #3
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    Some were mentioned in the HoX/PoX discussion thread, but I liked/felt these deaths (I'm a big softie lol):

    > Jean in the Dark Phoenix Saga, big sadness;

    > Colossus' virus Legacy Death (not really big on me, but I think it was important);

    > Magneto's death in Genosha and the whole Genoshan genocide felt real and compelling (until the Xorneto thing, as far as Magneto);

    > I know she didn't die, but I really felt Kitty's disappearance in Astonishing X-Men and the reactions of her teammates felt so real;

    > Nightcrawler's death in Second Coming was touching to me, especially Logan's reaction ("Elf" ) made me really sad at the time;


    I think that the worst deaths were the ones in Rosenberg and also Scott's death is DoX.

    I always loved this scene regarding the death of the original Hellions:
    FB_IMG_1570705282993.jpg

  4. #4

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    Illyana's death from the legacy virus was the only one that really felt like it had some "weight" over that past few decades. You never really got the sense she was this popular character that they were gonna bring back eventually, unlike say Nightcrawler when he died. Plus, I like the bond she formed with Jubilee and how it affected her. In the 90's, for all of her tough girl act(probably from hanging out with Logan all the time), Illyana's death really broke Jubilee and that issue with Jean comforting her on the cover remains one of my favorite all time issues.

  5. #5
    Extraordinary Member Tycon's Avatar
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    Anytime Emma’s students die, when Nightcrawler and Cable died (“died” in Cable’s case) in Second Coming, Colossus dying to defeat the Legacy Virus, and Cypher’s death.

    Quote Originally Posted by Desmark View Post
    IMO Kyle and Yost indulged in pretty tasteless death porn in the New X-Men which also reduced Emma/Scott to incompetent Headmasters who couldn't even protect their students.
    >:^(

  6. #6
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    Where is John Proudstar, why hasn't he been resurrected? I'm sure James would like to have his brother back.

  7. #7
    Astonishing Member CRaymond's Avatar
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    I actually think the Five means we’re about to see a LOT more character deaths, Suicide missions, and reckless behavior.

    Deaths were already boring. Now they’re pointless. Won’t stop hack writers tho. The Five just makes it easy for writers to ignore deaths.

  8. #8
    Incredible Member MechaJeanix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killerbee911 View Post
    Meaningful deaths and Death in the X-men Franchise

    With the current status quo it might be a while before see X-character die again. In HoxPoX main thread this point was made about deaths




    The X-franchise has devalued death a lot to the point where X-men on the actual page where making jokes about coming to life. X-men come back to life so much that the characters aren't even surprised by it. So if the characters aren't surprised or touched then fanbase surely isn't affected. Which leads to the questions

    1.Which X-men death has been poignant to you?

    2. Have there been deaths in recent years that you think were well done, What was the last meaningful death in the franchise ?

    3. Does resurrecting a character make the death meaningless?

    4. Can you have deaths without "fridging" because aren't all deaths meant to motivate/effect another character?

    5.Do surprise pointless deaths have place in comics, Do we need random deaths to simulate the pointless deaths in real life.

    I guess let's talk about death in the X-men franchise.
    Death in X-men became meaningless because of the voluminous numbers of deaths and resurrections. I like that Hickman has addressed it and making an in story process for mutant resurrection. I mean just recently both Scott and Jean were resurrected using the Phoenix and now they have died again. Jean wanted rid of the Phoenix because of the torturous cycle of death and rebirth but now she is in it again because Xavier can bring them back.

    It was a mistake killing so many classic characters over the years. It became too much. It hurt the franchise, imo to have killed so many, and not just relatively minor characters like Synch and Skin, but Magneto, Xavier, Jean Grey, Wolverine, Colossus, Cyclops, Nightcrawler, Northstar, Psylocke, Pyro, Avalanche, Magik, Cable, Doug and countless others have been dead.

    The easier question isn't who has died but who hasn't yet? It kind of boggles the mind how many X-deaths we have had. This is why I couldn't warm to Rosenberg's Uncanny X-men. Even knowing they would come back it was just overdone at this point (I feel the same about Hickman's HOX issue). Death in the X-universe just makes us collectively roll our eyes.

  9. #9
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    The X-Men's soul died in X-Men (1991) #1. It was never resurrected.

  10. #10
    Extraordinary Member Tycon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CRaymond View Post
    I actually think the Five means we’re about to see a LOT more character deaths, Suicide missions, and reckless behavior.

    Deaths were already boring. Now they’re pointless. Won’t stop hack writers tho. The Five just makes it easy for writers to ignore deaths.
    From what Percy keeps hinting at in X-Force plus some of the B&W teasers we’ve got, ugh, I think you’ll be right.

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sin Nick View Post
    Illyana's death from the legacy virus was the only one that really felt like it had some "weight" over that past few decades. You never really got the sense she was this popular character that they were gonna bring back eventually, unlike say Nightcrawler when he died. Plus, I like the bond she formed with Jubilee and how it affected her. In the 90's, for all of her tough girl act(probably from hanging out with Logan all the time), Illyana's death really broke Jubilee and that issue with Jean comforting her on the cover remains one of my favorite all time issues.
    Yeah, that's one that really stands out in memory as being a tear-jerker. My only issue with it in retrospect was that it was Lobdell pulling another "child dying tragically of an incurable disease" story about a year after the last time he went to that particular well. But it was far better executed the second time around, so it's a minor quibble.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tycon View Post
    From what Percy keeps hinting at in X-Force plus some of the B&W teasers we’ve got, ugh, I think you’ll be right.
    I'd want to see how the idea gets executed first. Like, I can see that being a question that writers want to play with - do adrenaline junkie characters suddenly get even more reckless? Do they feel the fun's gone out of the game once they get brought back a couple of times? What are the security risks of potentially leaving recurring corpses on the battle field? How closely are the X-Men guarding the secret of their new immortality?
    Last edited by Anduinel; Yesterday at 10:20 AM.

    This Week's Comics:G.I. Joe: A Real American Hero #267, Powers Of X #6 (of 6), Gwenpool Strikes Back #3

  12. #12
    Incredible Member MechaJeanix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CRaymond View Post
    I actually think the Five means we’re about to see a LOT more character deaths, Suicide missions, and reckless behavior.

    Deaths were already boring. Now they’re pointless. Won’t stop hack writers tho. The Five just makes it easy for writers to ignore deaths.
    I hope they do not over do it. I was hoping the point was bringing back all the great characters that were killed off moreso than the X-men dying every other issue. I just had Charmed flashbacks. Prue's death was so meaningful and she couldn't be brought back but towards the end of the series the sisters would die and be brought back every other episode. It was so frustrating to watch.

    I hope they keep some measure and only have the X-men die in battle every now and then.

  13. #13
    Benefactor / Malefactor H-E-D's Avatar
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    I mean, the thing is that people complained about death being meaningless before, but nobody actually wanted dead to mean dead. I can’t remember the last time I saw fans on characters being happy and satisfied with that characters death.

  14. #14
    Kinky Lil' Canine Snoop Dogg's Avatar
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    ya'll really gonna forget pyro like this
    Our main character, a socially awkward outcast, gains newfound confidence and arrogance before committing a string of horrid acts. He then wears a fancy suit and proceeds to dance like a maniac to music that isn't actually there playing around him.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by H-E-D View Post
    I mean, the thing is that people complained about death being meaningless before, but nobody actually wanted dead to mean dead. I can’t remember the last time I saw fans on characters being happy and satisfied with that characters death.
    Bringing Colossus and Nightcrawler back was a mistake they dont have that big a fanbase and they've added literally nothing to the franchise the last 20 years despite multiple writers focusing on them.

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