Darth Vader vs Saruman

[Shai-Hulud]

Darth Vader vs Saruman, movie versions only.

Vader has his light saber, Saruman has his staff.

Standard arena match.

[Powerboy]

Darth Vader vs Saruman, movie versions only.

Vader has his light saber, Saruman has his staff.

Standard arena match.

Movie versions only, can Saruman really do anything that Vader cannot do that is relevant in a fight?

[Shai-Hulud]

Movie versions only, can Saruman really do anything that Vader cannot do that is relevant in a fight?

Fireball? Mess up Vader's life support gear before Vader can close to saber distance?

Who has the greater telekinetic feats?

[Iron_Twister]

While Gandalf has a bunch of feats I can recall, I am coming a tad empty of memories of Saruman in combat...well, it was that one where he beat down Gandalf with TK so that's something.

Vader has shown to be strong enough to lift a grown man by the neck with one hand and kill him, not as fast as prequel Jedi swordsmanship but effective nevertheless, throwing objects with TK, and that whole deal he can strangle people with his mind from far away places. Actually, I wonder if Saruman can dodge Vader throwing his lightsaber at him.

Edit: wait, Saruman can shoot fireballs?

[Powerboy]

While Gandalf has a bunch of feats I can recall, I am coming a tad empty of memories of Saruman in combat...well, it was that one where he beat down Gandalf with TK so that's something.

Vader has shown to be strong enough to lift a grown man by the neck with one hand and kill him, not as fast as prequel Jedi swordsmanship but effective nevertheless, throwing objects with TK, and that whole deal he can strangle people with his mind from far away places. Actually, I wonder if Saruman can dodge Vader throwing his lightsaber at him.

Edit: wait, Saruman can shoot fireballs?

I don't remember one way or the other. But, even if he can, lightsaber block. Vader also has far greater distance on his TK and more powerful feats I think since movie Saruman only used TK to toss Gandalf around.

Also, if we assume Saruman knows about technology that advanced and understands that Vader's armor is technology AND also somehow knows Vader is dependent upon it, then it stands to reason Vader just somehow knows Saruman needs his staff and Force yanks it away.

[Surtur]

A lightsaber only blocks a fireball if it's an incredibly small fireball. That said Saruman can't shoot fireballs, unless he did so in the latest hobbit movie trailer. He does TK Gandalf up really high..but he is holding both his and Gandalf's staff at the time he did it. Saruman does cause a lightning bolt to hit a mountain from far away, but only after a lot of chanting, so it won't be viable in a fight.

[Shai-Hulud]

Saruman can't shoot fireballs, unless he did so in the latest hobbit movie trailer.

Saruman flame strike starts at 2:55 from Return of the King.

Also, if we assume Saruman knows about technology that advanced and understands that Vader's armor is technology AND also somehow knows Vader is dependent upon it, then it stands to reason Vader just somehow knows Saruman needs his staff and Force yanks it away.

Isn't basic knowledge of the opposition a given in the standard arena match?

[lancerman]

Saruman has way better TK feats. They are faster and he shows more skill, while Vader is slow and clunky when using TK. Saruman showed more resiliency and durability when Gandalf knocked him around than Vader ever has except for once (the hand blocking the blaster). Saruman has fireballs.

Basically Vader's only hope is a force choke where I don't think he has the speed feats for it. Hell if Saruman's smart he'll just start with a fireball and it won't matter what Vader does. Also Vader lacks the speed and ability to do anything with a lighsaber.

Maybe if it was Anakin pre suit it would be a closer match.

[Endless_Legend]

That's a fireball, not a flame strike. Flame Strike is a column of fire that descends from the heavens. (/nerd)

Anyways, the Wizards don't "need" their staffs, not really. They're weaker without them, because they act like a focus.

It really depends on whether Vader can grab his staff away before Saruman can fireball him.

[lancerman]

That's a fireball, not a flame strike. Flame Strike is a column of fire that descends from the heavens. (/nerd)

Anyways, the Wizards don't "need" their staffs, not really. They're weaker without them, because they act like a focus.

It really depends on whether Vader can grab his staff away before Saruman can fireball him.

Saruman's just as likely to grab Vader's lighsaber.

[Endless_Legend]

Why waste time with that? A fireball is faster, and vader can't block it.

[big_adventure]

I'll just point out that Vader should absolutely get Anakin's TK feats as well. And that means he's insanely faster with it than Saruman, and, based on the force push battle with Obi-Wan MacGregor, at least as powerful. Vader's soak is also pretty insane - after losing an arm and suffering a personal psychological crisis, he tanks extended force lightning before dumping the emperor down the non-OSHA-approved tunnel to the power-core that happens to be in the emperor's room.

[big_adventure]

That's a fireball, not a flame strike. Flame Strike is a column of fire that descends from the heavens. (/nerd)

Anyways, the Wizards don't "need" their staffs, not really. They're weaker without them, because they act like a focus.

It really depends on whether Vader can grab his staff away before Saruman can fireball him.

Actually, in the movie-verse, they most certainly do need their staffs for almost any magic they perform. Gandalf is helpless when he loses his, and Saruman never performs the slightest magic without his staff. So Vader can TK that out of Saruman's hands, and the fight is over.

[Captain Morgan]

That's a fireball, not a flame strike. Flame Strike is a column of fire that descends from the heavens. (/nerd)

.

If you want to get technical, that had very little resemblance to a fireball.

A fireball spell is an explosion of flame that detonates with a low roar and deals 1d6 points of fire damage per caster level (maximum 10d6) to every creature within the area. Unattended objects also take this damage. The explosion creates almost no pressure.

You point your finger and determine the range (distance and height) at which the fireball is to burst. A glowing, pea-sized bead streaks from the pointing digit and, unless it impacts upon a material body or solid barrier prior to attaining the prescribed range, blossoms into the fireball at that point. (An early impact results in an early detonation.) If you attempt to send the bead through a narrow passage, such as through an arrow slit, you must “hit” the opening with a ranged touch attack, or else the bead strikes the barrier and detonates prematurely.

The fireball sets fire to combustibles and damages objects in the area. It can melt metals with low melting points, such as lead, gold, copper, silver, and bronze. If the damage caused to an interposing barrier shatters or breaks through it, the fireball may continue beyond the barrier if the area permits; otherwise it stops at the barrier just as any other spell effect does.


Probably closer to scorching ray or some such.

[Endless_Legend]

Actually, in the movie-verse, they most certainly do need their staffs for almost any magic they perform. Gandalf is helpless when he loses his, and Saruman never performs the slightest magic without his staff. So Vader can TK that out of Saruman's hands, and the fight is over.

Gandalf's staff gets destroyed by the Witch King during the siege of Minas Tirith in the movies, but that didn't stop him from wizarding about as usual. Maybe the rules were different from him then, however, since he was again a being of living flame, and no longer trapped in that old Istari body.

I recall that earlier in the trilogy he took a branch and *made* himself a new staff, after he escaped Saruman's tower (while he was still The Grey). He was also able to speak to the butterfly without a staff.